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Teaching Good Sex

nytimes.com

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Re: Teaching Good Sex

#51

Post by sigzero »

jbm wrote: post #12
saulrh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty common problem all throughout education. http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/06/living/teachers-want-to-tell-p...

I really want to sympathize with the teachers, but I do feel for the parents. -- His mother chimed in and told me that it had been a horrible summer for them because of family issues they'd been through in July. I said I was so sorry, but I couldn't help but point out that the assignments were given in May. She quickly added that she was allowing her child some "fun time" during the summer before getting back to work…

I would flat out tell the teacher "Sorry, summer is family time and not your summer reading list time."

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#52

Post by yummyfajitas »

kahawe wrote: post #50
davidhansen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how old you are, but be prepared to battle this for much of your life. At 32, I would have hoped to excise the latent misogyny and distrust of former jocks that my adolescent experiences burned into me, but it has not abated. I expect this to last a lifetime, and my only defense is to continue working on discarding cached thoughts( per the LessWrong folks )whenever they are recognized. The real kicker is…

I am sorry for what you had to go through, I can relate in a way. I will recommend the same I recommended to winter_blue: consider (behavior) therapy and work through whatever pain and/or toxic shame might be left in you from the past. And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot and just decide whether the sleeping-with-you and her presence is worth it to you or not. There are also great girls…

And on gold-digging women: they should be sufficiently easy to spot...

I don't think so. In general, women are masters of deception (by male geek standards) and you shouldn't expect to beat them at their own game.

In my experience, the only reliable way to spot a golddigger is to reveal that you are broke and have no desire to change this.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#53

Post by alttag »

smokinn wrote: post #34
Shenglong wrote: post #7

I recently (well, a few years ago) went through sex education in schools. They don't really teach you sex, as much as why you shouldn't have sex. Even when they're teaching contraception, the consistent emphasis on only x% effective really cuts out student interest. It's almost like saying, "yeah we have a method or preventing HIV transmission, but it doesn't really work." While it might seem like a good idea at firs…

I wish it were this simple. The school gives this guy a great amount of latitude and it's great that they do because he's truly knowledgeable, does a lot of research and helps his students a lot. But, for every one of him, there are many others that, given the same latitude, will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students and insist that their view of sexual life, however either perverted or abnormally repre…

  > "will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students 
    and insist that their view of sexual life, however either 
    perverted or abnormally repressive it may be, is the way 
    to go"
And he's not? Or is it that you agree with his moral stance that you see it that way?

This particular instructor is an advocate for his standards, whether he intends to or not. He's gay, and according to the article approves of pretty much everyone being sexually active at 17 if they wish.

There are moral and emotional reasons to disagree with these, and I'm disappointed that the article doesn't highlight or speak approvingly of "waiting" or abstinence. To even suggest such things in this context makes one a pariah.

Yes, I agree abstinence-only education in public schools doesn't seem as effective as other curricular plans, particularly as it's usually not complemented by abstinence-only reinforcement at home. I'm pleased that he can discuss relationships, communication, and encourages students to think both long term and of those other than themselves. But all of that doesn't mean he's not advocating some moral stance.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#54

Post by kahawe »

tintin wrote: post #36
joshu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did you link that? now i have to wash my brain out with soap.

Some soap: Everything you've seen or read about sex is false. It is an (growing) experience between the ones who have sex which can not be learned from a book or video.

Centuries of everything from sensual, artful to downright obscene and even religious pornography, guidelines, texts and other scriptures, statues, china and other works of art beg to differ.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#55

Post by alttag »

jbm wrote: post #12
saulrh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty common problem all throughout education. http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/06/living/teachers-want-to-tell-p...

I really want to sympathize with the teachers, but I do feel for the parents. -- His mother chimed in and told me that it had been a horrible summer for them because of family issues they'd been through in July. I said I was so sorry, but I couldn't help but point out that the assignments were given in May. She quickly added that she was allowing her child some "fun time" during the summer before getting back to work…

  > Summer break isn't a period for extended homework - it's
    a chance to develop curiosity and self-development.
Yes, but for most socio-economically challenged students, it doesn't work that way. Research out of Johns Hopkins shows "summer learning loss" is greater for certain populations, and over time leads the the "achievement gap" we see in high schools. (To the extent that comparable students after Kindergarten have a one-year learning gap by middle school.)

Schools are disparaged because of a problem that occurs as a consequence of their schedule and students' home lives. IT's natural they'd want to do something about it.

I agree, summer homework may not be the best solution, but it's what they have now; it's the current limit of what we as society allow them.

(No, I might not make my kids do homework over the summer either, as I offer them other learning experiences. But then again, I might.)

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#56

Post by kahawe »

veyron wrote: post #5

The real problem here is that many parents have very strong opinions regarding teaching sex in school. obligatory south park reference (nsfw): http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s05e07-proper-...

It is the same with the "theories" (WTF???) of evolution and IMHO the duty of the government to offer open, proper, modern and beneficial education (based on recent scientific facts) to its citizens should clearly overrule this wish for individual and religious preferences.

"Intelligent" design, creationism and any other religious believes should have nothing to do with governmental education just as much as governmental education should offer the best possible sex ed. If you do not want any of this, opt out of the governmental school system and follow whatever cult and/or religious doctrine you prefer... but this has to be clearly separated from the open education offered by your government to everybody.

Unless, of course, your government is a theocracy.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#57

Post by alttag »

Tichy wrote: post #39
winter_blue wrote: post #20

For those if you who have never had sex, how does this (seeing this article) make you feel? Please be honest. - I feel a combination of envy and hatred (but I wish I didn't feel like this.)

While the article starts out mentioning the students who have lots of sex, later on it explains that those were not actually the majority, and there even were some virgins in the course. And even the ones having lots of sex were also troubled by it. Reading stuff about colleges in the US, sometimes it seems as if all those kids do is fornicate. I suspect the reality looks quite different. Just saying that part of the…

  > there even were some virgins in the course
An early part of the article said there was one. In my mind, neither the author nor the instructor he wrote about seemed approving of the choice, and went to lengths to cast it as non-normative. A decision for abstinence before marriage should be encouraged, not demanded, and not based on scare tactics. There are more people making that choice than the article suggests.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#58

Post by Tichy »

alttag wrote: post #57
Tichy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the article starts out mentioning the students who have lots of sex, later on it explains that those were not actually the majority, and there even were some virgins in the course. And even the ones having lots of sex were also troubled by it. Reading stuff about colleges in the US, sometimes it seems as if all those kids do is fornicate. I suspect the reality looks quite different. Just saying that part of the…

> there even were some virgins in the course An early part of the article said there was one. In my mind, neither the author nor the instructor he wrote about seemed approving of the choice, and went to lengths to cast it as non-normative. A decision for abstinence before marriage should be encouraged, not demanded, and not based on scare tactics. There are more people making that choice than the article suggests.

I thought the virgins from the article were simply people who never had sex before, not abstinence advocates. I wholeheartedly disagree with your abstinence ideology, but I don't think HN is the place to discuss that.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#59

Post by epo »

tintin wrote: post #36
joshu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did you link that? now i have to wash my brain out with soap.

Some soap: Everything you've seen or read about sex is false. It is an (growing) experience between the ones who have sex which can not be learned from a book or video.

I'm sure it doesn't apply to you but that sounds like it was written by someone who never really had sex all that often. "The Joy of Sex" became so popular (in an era in which sex was widely seen as a leisure pursuit and before the scares over HIV) because many people actually did need to be told what to do. It concentrated on the emotional as well as the physical aspects.

Poor analogy time: owning a car does not make you an instinctive driver, suggesting you just keep taking it round the block until you figure it out is the kind of thing that only a non-driver would say.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#60

Post by JonnieCache »

epo wrote: post #59
tintin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some soap: Everything you've seen or read about sex is false. It is an (growing) experience between the ones who have sex which can not be learned from a book or video.

I'm sure it doesn't apply to you but that sounds like it was written by someone who never really had sex all that often. "The Joy of Sex" became so popular (in an era in which sex was widely seen as a leisure pursuit and before the scares over HIV) because many people actually did need to be told what to do. It concentrated on the emotional as well as the physical aspects. Poor analogy time: owning a car does not mak…

GP's point is that the best advice on how to please someone comes from that person, no book can give complete insight into the way their body works.

To torture your analogy some more, imagine a car capable of explaining to you how to drive/maintain it perfectly. Like a less whiny KITT. Would it not make sense to ask the car rather than to pore over generic car manuals?

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