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Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

spiegel.de

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Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#91

Post by [deleted] »

looperhacks wrote: post #88
tpmx wrote: post #15

And still the current plan is for Germany to shut down its few remaining nuclear reactors by the end of the year, while the company/companies maintaining them are saying they can keep them running? Please stop the shutdown, ffs, are you insane? Let's try to stop Germany from harming itself further via international pressure. Blame and shame. Call them idiots to their faces. Point fingers. They need to shocked. The ge…

If you are referring to the latest discussion about a specific plant (Isar 2), the company running the plant (e.on) wants to shut it down. The discussion came up because the TÜV Süd (internationally mostly known for certifying that dam in Brazil one year before it killed 270 people because it was not safe and broke) certified that the plant is safe, but pretty much everyone involved claimed that the certificate is bo…

[deleted]

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#92

Post by LudwigNagasena »

Gwypaas wrote: post #60
cgb223 wrote: post #6

Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?

> Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? Because the only method shown to prevent war in Europe is co-dependence. EU is founded on integrating the belligerents of WW2 close enough that it would be unthinkable to happen again. The same method, which at least has worked previously, was tri…

In 1999 the Russian prime minister was flying to the US with a diplomatic visit. While he was flying to the US he was told that the NATO started bombing Yugoslavia. He reversed his flight in the middle of the Atlantic and came back to Russia.

So what same method are you talking about?

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#93

Post by KingOfCoders »

As a German I don't care. I just want two things:

1. The energy company pays market rate insurance for their nuclear plants. Not "we take the profit, taxpayers pay for the disaster"

2. The energy company sets up a trust to pay for the safe storage of nuclear waste and cleaning up the plant should they go bust (again "we take ...")

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#94

Post by tpmx »

looperhacks wrote: post #88
tpmx wrote: post #15

And still the current plan is for Germany to shut down its few remaining nuclear reactors by the end of the year, while the company/companies maintaining them are saying they can keep them running? Please stop the shutdown, ffs, are you insane? Let's try to stop Germany from harming itself further via international pressure. Blame and shame. Call them idiots to their faces. Point fingers. They need to shocked. The ge…

If you are referring to the latest discussion about a specific plant (Isar 2), the company running the plant (e.on) wants to shut it down. The discussion came up because the TÜV Süd (internationally mostly known for certifying that dam in Brazil one year before it killed 270 people because it was not safe and broke) certified that the plant is safe, but pretty much everyone involved claimed that the certificate is bo…

No post body was provided.

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#95

Post by T-A »

Gwypaas wrote: post #60
cgb223 wrote: post #6

Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?

> Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? Because the only method shown to prevent war in Europe is co-dependence. EU is founded on integrating the belligerents of WW2 close enough that it would be unthinkable to happen again. The same method, which at least has worked previously, was tri…

> Not too different though, looking at how the Baltic states have developed when given the choice and chance.

The Baltic states were gobbled up by the Soviet Union during WWII, and accrued significant Russian minorities during the Cold War, but they are culturally and ethnically distinct from Russia, with their own languages and histories going back centuries (just check out the Grand Duchy of Lithuania).

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#96

Post by telotortium »

nautilius wrote: post #76
blibble wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the only method shown to prevent war in Europe is co-dependence. > The same method, which at least has worked previously it was a common theory prior to WW1 breaking out, then WW1 broke out and falsified it and now Russia has falsified this theory again (the threat of the Soviet Union plus nuclear deterrence prevented war in Europe, not the EU)

You may want to look into how many conflicts between how many parties there were in Europe prior to WWI, and since.

Surely that can be better explained by the European countries being fatally weakened by WWII (there were plenty of European conflicts after WWI), which allowed the US and Soviet Union to become the two uncontested hegemons? They very much did not want their European buffer zones to reduce their effectiveness by squandering military resources on infighting, so they enforced that their militaries remain small and, more importantly, dedicated only to defense (while remaining available for the imperial adventure of the hegemons). Both the Soviet Union and especially the US (being the prototypical ocean empire) have found plenty of excuses to get involved with war with an eye to their own benefit. Meanwhile, the European militaries have rotted to the point where most barely have any weapons to send to Ukraine. (Eastern Europe, not being under the thumb of the US for as long and being closer to Russia, has retained a stronger military.)

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#97

Post by rgbrenner »

tpmx wrote: post #15

And still the current plan is for Germany to shut down its few remaining nuclear reactors by the end of the year, while the company/companies maintaining them are saying they can keep them running? Please stop the shutdown, ffs, are you insane? Let's try to stop Germany from harming itself further via international pressure. Blame and shame. Call them idiots to their faces. Point fingers. They need to shocked. The ge…

If you cant build new plants, I dont think the solution is to run old plants forever until they fail. Shutting down old plants should have nothing to do with being pro/anti nuclear. Everything has a life span.

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#98

Post by koheripbal »

looperhacks wrote: post #88
tpmx wrote: post #15

And still the current plan is for Germany to shut down its few remaining nuclear reactors by the end of the year, while the company/companies maintaining them are saying they can keep them running? Please stop the shutdown, ffs, are you insane? Let's try to stop Germany from harming itself further via international pressure. Blame and shame. Call them idiots to their faces. Point fingers. They need to shocked. The ge…

If you are referring to the latest discussion about a specific plant (Isar 2), the company running the plant (e.on) wants to shut it down. The discussion came up because the TÜV Süd (internationally mostly known for certifying that dam in Brazil one year before it killed 270 people because it was not safe and broke) certified that the plant is safe, but pretty much everyone involved claimed that the certificate is bo…

There are three remaining plants in Germany, all scheduled to shut down this year.

The Government doubled-down on it's decision claiming that the plants didn't have the resources to continue operations.

In a rare moment, the operators of the plants embarrassed the gov't by going public that they could indeed continue to run safely.

One thing to note is that the prime minister appointed the head German head of Greenpeace to the cabinet this year - who is ideologically against any form of nuclear power, regardless of safety.

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#99

Post by Mordisquitos »

whimsicalism wrote: post #87
blibble wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the only method shown to prevent war in Europe is co-dependence. > The same method, which at least has worked previously it was a common theory prior to WW1 breaking out, then WW1 broke out and falsified it and now Russia has falsified this theory again (the threat of the Soviet Union plus nuclear deterrence prevented war in Europe, not the EU)

Economic interdependence before WW1 wasn't even close to how much it is today.

But it was still higher than it ever had been in World history, and yet still did not prevent the Great War from breaking out. Why should we assume that this time economic interdependence is high enough to prevent a war?

Who knows how high it can go. Maybe in the early 22nd century someone will argue that economic interdependence before WW3 was nowhere near as they have it then...

Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy

#100

Post by LudwigNagasena »

rdtsc wrote: post #89
Gwypaas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? Because the only method shown to prevent war in Europe is co-dependence. EU is founded on integrating the belligerents of WW2 close enough that it would be unthinkable to happen again. The same method, which at least has worked previously, was tri…

> Because the only method shown to prevent war in Europe is co-dependence. It’s a bit unilateral. As long as Russia can save enough money or have other buyers for its gas and oil it can just shut the supply in the middle of winter. Germans can of course refuse to export their products to Russia but people freezing in the middle of winter is a bit more dire than not being able to buy the latest Mercedes. So, like othe…

Germany doesn’t allow separatism. Most other European nations don’t allow it too. Spain jailed Catalonia independence movement leaders for 9-13 years in 2017.
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