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Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#351

Post by lazyjones »

rojobuffalo wrote: post #257
targ65 wrote: post #172

Like another comment here mentioned, housing is complicated. People don't want to live in a random house in the middle of nowhere ('roof over your head'). Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like. People want to live where they want to live (near family, jobs, culture etc) Take NYC for instance. Politicians try to address the NYC housing crisis from…

I would start by making property taxes substantially higher for non-owner-occupied property. If you are rent-seeking rather than residing on the property you should pay way more, maybe 4x or higher, in taxes. Housing prices would crash and that would be the point; but everyone who owns property would be against it because they don't want to see their assets drop in value. The counter-argument people make is "that wou…

This will just make rents more expensive.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#352

Post by goethes_kind »

You cannot fix housing. It is simply demand and supply. The problem to address, which is more fixable, is to incentivize employers to move to less popular areas. As an employee I also do not want to live in the largest metropolitan city. There is one distinct advantage of living in such a city, which is that finding new jobs is easier. But everything else just sucks, and I do not live 365 days a year looking forward to the day I need to find a new job.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#353

Post by thr0wawayf00 »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #210
missedthecue wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how many people in government globally refuse to understand this. The UK government has just been talking about inheritable 50 year mortgages. No one wants to build more housing. I think it might help people understand to put it in terms like this: there are 100 housing units out there and 150 people. How do we solve the problem?

Yeah. You just have to build more. Simple as that. I was talking to a NIMBY and converted her to YIMBY by relating to her that in Santiago anybody builds whatever the fuck wherever the fuck, zoning be damned basically, and that leads to rent being like $150 a month. For real, you get what you get in SF for $4000 a month for ah...$400 a month in Santiago. And the minimum is very low. Sometimes $100.

Having lived in a zoning-free US city (Houston), I can't say that I'm a fan of "build wherever you want". It leads to large disorganized, unwalkable and inaccessible areas that just don't make sense from an infrastructure standpoint.

People complain about how bad zoning is, and I agree that municipalities can get carried away with it, but most people highly underestimate the impact zoning has had on their lives and take even moderately executed city planning for granted.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#354

Post by DAVer98 »

treeman79 wrote: post #168
thepasswordis wrote: post #132

>a basic human right You do not have a basic human right to the labor of the people who build and maintain these houses. This is where this entire discussion collapses for me. Yes, I agree there needs to be more access to housing. And it’s frustrating to me that our government is too inept to simply provide it. For instance: we have committed to about 45 Billion to Ukraine. At a cost of $100k/unit (achievable at scal…

Well inflation will go up even more thanks to that bill. Incomes will go down. So housing will become even more unaffordable

We need to accelerate this problem. Make it impossible to rent or get a mortgage in any city. Millions on the streets. Most of the cities kids eating from trash cans. Only then will we see change i think.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#355

Post by pydry »

missedthecue wrote: post #263
pydry wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land is an asset. It needs to be a liability. Virtually every other problem is either a distraction or an indirect consequence (e.g. NIMBYs, too much luxury housing) of this core issue.

Can you explain how making housing even more costly houses the extra 50 people?

Housing isnt land. Housing isnt intrinsically scarce.

Land being a liability means that the "owner" will have zero incentive to hoard it. It will mean that owners of low rise property in high demand locations wont be doing everything in their power to inhibit high rise development because theyre sitting on a pot of gold. Theyll be sitting on a pot of taxes instead.

It means any undeveloped land will be developed or sold to somebody who will.

It means slumlords who rent out shit housing will lose money.

We all recognise that this is the appropriate way to deal with electronic spectrum - auctioning off time limited rights. The idea that your great-great-grandfather owned 400-405MHz so you should too is no less ridiculous.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#356

Post by _8j50 »

mjevans wrote: post #291
_8j50 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right that throwing money at it isn't a solution. But corporations should not own residencial housing and no one should be allowed to sell propery at a meaningful profit if they own multiple properties. The government should excecise it's power of taxation to take the profits of an investment housing sell (as defined above: multiple property owner selling at profit) with something like a 95% tax on profit and…

I agree, except E.G. retired 'snowbirds' really love a stable climate and might have two homes in different climate zones. There's also the case where someone is selling one home and moving into another. The tax break should be made if someone's primary residence is occupied for at least 35% of a tax year. A number intentionally just a tiny bit bigger than one third, so the break can only apply to a maximum of two ho…

I mean, they can still own multiple properties and sell it close to the original purchase price, I am just saying they can't make a profit from the sale of their second or third property.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#357

Post by mgh2 »

targ65 wrote: post #172

Like another comment here mentioned, housing is complicated. People don't want to live in a random house in the middle of nowhere ('roof over your head'). Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like. People want to live where they want to live (near family, jobs, culture etc) Take NYC for instance. Politicians try to address the NYC housing crisis from…

> Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like.

... why is this the top comment?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#358

Post by breckenedge »

josh_p wrote: post #330
yasp wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having a roof over ones head is a basic human right. Prove it.

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-huma... Article 25

huh enforcement is clearly lacking.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#359

Post by closedloop129 »

axblount wrote: post #130
whittingtonaaon wrote: post #82

I already posted a comment on this, but forgot to answer the actual question. I don’t think it follows that it’s wrong to commoditize basic necessities. Take, for example, food: the reason just about everyone in the western world can afford food is BECAUSE it is commoditized. I would like the barriers to home ownership to be lowered. On the other hand, I don’t think the rental market is evil. A lot of people can’t af…

The western world gets cheap food because it exploits the labor and resources of the less fourtunate. Real estate investment is a direct example of wealth concentration. The less wealthy pay a richer individuals rent plus a little profit on top. That person should be able to buy the dwelling directly without a middleman extracting profit.

>The western world gets cheap food because it exploits the labor and resources of the less fourtunate.

This is true for vegetables and fruits. But the core calories come from corn and grain that is cheap because of industrialization. The US don't rely on an army of slaves to export soy to China.

Equally, housing could be much cheaper if a bigger share of construction would be industrialized.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#360

Post by softwarebeware »

rojobuffalo wrote: post #257
targ65 wrote: post #172

Like another comment here mentioned, housing is complicated. People don't want to live in a random house in the middle of nowhere ('roof over your head'). Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like. People want to live where they want to live (near family, jobs, culture etc) Take NYC for instance. Politicians try to address the NYC housing crisis from…

I would start by making property taxes substantially higher for non-owner-occupied property. If you are rent-seeking rather than residing on the property you should pay way more, maybe 4x or higher, in taxes. Housing prices would crash and that would be the point; but everyone who owns property would be against it because they don't want to see their assets drop in value. The counter-argument people make is "that wou…

Yeah, Vancouver BC actually is creating policies like taxing unoccupied housing at a higher rate, instituting a tax on the sale of homes to foreign buyers, and further regulations around real estate "commoditization" and these are effective tools. I don't know why people say it's a difficult problem. Cities are actually just looking the other way.
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