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Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#191

Post by missedthecue »

targ65 wrote: post #172

Like another comment here mentioned, housing is complicated. People don't want to live in a random house in the middle of nowhere ('roof over your head'). Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like. People want to live where they want to live (near family, jobs, culture etc) Take NYC for instance. Politicians try to address the NYC housing crisis from…

It's amazing how many people in government globally refuse to understand this. The UK government has just been talking about inheritable 50 year mortgages. No one wants to build more housing.

I think it might help people understand to put it in terms like this: there are 100 housing units out there and 150 people. How do we solve the problem?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#192

Post by nemo44x »

imgabe wrote: post #128

There are no such things as human rights. You will never get anywhere wagging your finger at people. > I do not understand how will someone expect for future generations to achieve their own personal freedom and living inside their own four walls. Why would anyone expect that? It hasn’t been the case for most of human history. Maybe it’s not up to other people to figure out for you how to achieve your own freedom.

We have warped peoples minds so much they can’t think outside of a consumerist mindset. It’s like it’s a revelation to people that they need to be an active participant in their own lives. As if magical services ought to exist to serve them and bring them comfort on-demand, less they make a claim to being underserved. Magical carpenter elves should build them a home overnight using materials sourced by magic, by right.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#193

Post by notpachet »

Giorgi wrote: post #136

No. I am against any "Government is your big brother" kind of thing, real estate is just like any other goods, like an internet or water or electricity, nobody feels uneasy when these were commoditized, so why would anyone feel same about real estate?

> Government is your big brother

Government IS your big brother, in the sense that it's a means of ensuring that a single individual can't run roughshod over the rights of others. These "government bad" hot takes ring so hollow at this point. We live in a society. That bespeaks responsibilities to our fellow citizens.

> nobody feels uneasy when these were commoditized

(I bet a sizable portion of the UK is feeling particularly uneasy about water commoditization right now.)

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#194

Post by unlikelymordant »

ramesh31 wrote: post #150
smt88 wrote: post #5

I definitely do. It's something that turns a basic necessity into a speculative asset, with a price distorted by the money poured into it. Airbnb is also a deeply harmful influence on housing prices. Imagine if we did the same thing with, say, water: privatized it and then "democratized" ownership of it. It's easy to get retail investors to buy things at inflated, speculative prices, so the price of water would go up…

>I definitely do. It's something that turns a basic necessity into a speculative asset, with a price distorted by the money poured into it The 30 year mortgage is one of the greatest inventions in the history of mankind. Being able to swing hundreds of thousands of dollars of margin on a near-zero-down investment that requires nothing more than proof of income and has a manageable monthly payment is the single most p…

I disagree somewhat. I think the 30 year mortgage has pushed prices up much higher than they would have been, because of the leverage, and people only look at the monthly repayment. The fact that it has led to intergenerational wealth (among the rich who can afford houses) is a direct side effect of the fact that houses are so expensive. It seems like saying it has generated wealth is begging the question.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#195

Post by treis »

jrajav wrote: post #64
treis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People consume state services. Not land.

And people who own more valuable land benefit proportionally more from state services.

Sure, and you can say the same for sports cars, stocks, cell phones, yachts, and basically anything that can be bought and sold.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#196

Post by CuriouslyC »

The problem is that our system has perverse incentives around real-estate that encourage extreme profit seeking while liming the supply of affordable housing.

We need to restructure taxes around real estate and mortgages to encourage single family home ownership and affordable rental units. Then we can let capitalism run wild until people learn to game the new rules.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#198

Post by Blackstone4 »

horsawlarway wrote: post #83
Blackstone4 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US housing market is regulated and subsidised…the American dream of owning a home is socialist…US mortgages are guaranteed by federal government.. this doesn’t happen in most other countries..

It's not about regulation, it's about replace-ability. Food prices stay low because corn is corn, regardless of who grew it - it fills the same need. In many cases, even food that's not a direct match is still a perfectly valid replacement (ex: I need to eat 2000 calories, but it doesn't matter all too much what food is providing them). This is utterly untrue for real estate, which is about as non-fungible as you can…

You raise an interesting point regarding fungibility…I wonder that with growing insitutional involvement, whether housing may move down the spectrum and may become more fungible… probably not by much tho

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#200

Post by missedthecue »

feet wrote: post #74
aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if we did the same thing with, say, water: privatized it and then "democratized" ownership of it. We're watching this happen before our eyes.

Nestlé is at the forefront of taking over a water supply and selling it back to the locals to enrich the corporation at the expense of the humans who live there

If you don't like that, the logical thing is to support water commiditization so that nestle doesn't get it for free.
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