Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#201

Post by _8j50 » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

Unethical? Should be disallowed period. I do strongly believe that once a propery is yours what you do with it is your concern and nobody else's. However, the business practice of purchasing properties to profit from selling it again in the future should not be allowed. So, what should happen is the government should not allow the transfer of ownership when the seller has a) multiple properties and b) is selling a propery for more than 3% (inflation adjusted) of the intial purchase value. I am all for living in a house and selling it at a ridiculous profit though so long as that is your only property.

With the exception of employee housing, any non-individual entity including agents of corporations should not be allowed to purchase even one residential property.

With the exception of diplomats, foreign citizens should not be allowed to purchase more than one property.

These laws should be applied in any developed country.

This is one of the reasons they wanted corporations to have rights as a person, because in regular reasoning a corporation owning houses, making speeches and donating to parties makes no sense as their activity and existence is entirely in the sphere of privileges not rights.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#202

Post by webmobdev » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #66

djohnston wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you need a home to live in, the same can't be said of securities.

i don't have 'personal freedom' because i rent ?

Yes, you have less personal freedom to make changes to the house and your own lifestyle if you don't own the house.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#203

Post by danpalmer » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

targ65 wrote: post #172

Like another comment here mentioned, housing is complicated. People don't want to live in a random house in the middle of nowhere ('roof over your head'). Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like. People want to live where they want to live (near family, jobs, culture etc) Take NYC for instance. Politicians try to address the NYC housing crisis from…

> Deregulate construction, get rid of unions, prioritize developer rights over tenant or homeowner rights.

These all assume that the cost of new development is the building/development itself. It isn't. It's the land.

The correct solution to this is a land tax based on the assessed value of the land.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#204

Post by unlikelymordant » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

luxuryballs wrote: post #183

andrepd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parable is very explicitly contrasting taking what you need / taking one seat at the theatre / owning a home to live in, with taking everything and depriving others of the use of what should be common / taking all the seats at the theatre / hoarding homes to extract economic rent, respectively. I'm 99% sure you understood the point too.

I’m not sure there’s a practical or fair way to quantify what someone needs, how can that be measured? Or worse, enforced?

In general i think its not about enforcement, but incentives e.g. designing a tax system that penalises owning many homes.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#205

Post by missedthecue » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

xkcd1963 wrote: post #180

missedthecue wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have long supported the privatization and commiditization of water. It should be sold on the basis of supply and demand with markets, futures, and so forth. Don't like almond farms, bottled water companies pumping millions of gallons for the price of a $200 permit, and golf courses watering their courses during a drought? Then you should too.

Why?

So that water supply becomes a workable business model, increasing supply, and so that uneconomic water usage is discouraged. Such as almond farming in Southern California during the summer

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#206

Post by sennight » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

Unethical? No. Laughably stupid? Yes.

It is maddening, knowing that valuation is totally detached from reality - and still having no alternative but to join the game of musical chairs. I genuinely don't understand how anyone can think "Unlike every other thing since forever, my continued use of this property for 20 years actually makes it more valuable... better jack up the price to twice what I paid for it!"

In addition to the insult to your intelligence, you've got the government doing its very best to help investment banks outbid you. Injecting capital into the economy by providing interest free loans and bailouts to the very top of the power structure... what could possibly go wrong?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#207

Post by cudgy » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

snapplebobapple wrote: post #156

It's a natural first impulse, but it's wrong. What is the correct impulse is to be concerned about how lopsided most cities zoning is towards single family, as that is what is driving the market power that makes real estate profitable as a financial asset. If most of a city was zoned to allow up to multi residential highrises rather than most of a city being zoned for single family it would cut the appreciation abili…

The zoning argument is such a myopic perspective on the problem. The issue with housing affordability is across many communities, most of which have no issues with shortages of buildable land nor even shortages of housing. The primary impact on prices is from the demand side due to cheap credit from artificially low interest rates and speculation by large investors and small time speculators moving into real estate.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#208

Post by nemo44x » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

metadat wrote: post #175

h2odragon wrote: post #107

> basic human right to have a roof over one's head Is that a basic human right? If you build your roof, are you then required to share it with others? Why can't they build their own? Why should you build one if someone else already has? Starting with that assumption severely limits the conclusions you can come to, doesn't it?

If not housing, what do you consider to be the set basic human rights?

What if no one wants to build you a house? Are your human rights being violated because others want to use their doing other things than building you a home?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#209

Post by pyuser583 » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

Many of the causes of homelessness are anti-commodification:

“This is a family friendly neighborhood, we don’t want high arise apartments here. You can’t treat real estate like a commodity, these are peoples homes and communities! We need to preserve our neighborhoods character!”

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#210

Post by daniel-cussen » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #191

targ65 wrote: post #172

Like another comment here mentioned, housing is complicated. People don't want to live in a random house in the middle of nowhere ('roof over your head'). Some people prefer to be homeless on the street versus getting to a roof over their head that they don't like. People want to live where they want to live (near family, jobs, culture etc) Take NYC for instance. Politicians try to address the NYC housing crisis from…

It's amazing how many people in government globally refuse to understand this. The UK government has just been talking about inheritable 50 year mortgages. No one wants to build more housing. I think it might help people understand to put it in terms like this: there are 100 housing units out there and 150 people. How do we solve the problem?

Yeah. You just have to build more. Simple as that.

I was talking to a NIMBY and converted her to YIMBY by relating to her that in Santiago anybody builds whatever the fuck wherever the fuck, zoning be damned basically, and that leads to rent being like $150 a month. For real, you get what you get in SF for $4000 a month for ah...$400 a month in Santiago. And the minimum is very low. Sometimes $100.