The Cluetrain Manifesto (1999) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Cluetrain Manifesto (1999)

#41

Post by mikewarot » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 6:07 AM UTC

docsearls wrote: post #38

mikewarot wrote: post #3

Doc Searls fought a good fight against adtech, but he lost. 8( He's still speaking out against the idiocy of the world. He also takes good photos.

It's a long fight, of the kind one loses until one wins. We've been at Gandhicon 1, 2, and 3 for decades now. But we'll get to 4. There are simply better ways for demand and supply to signal each other than what adtech provides. When we prove that, we'll win.

It's good to see you here, Doc.

I think that for a while, the distribution model of choice is about to go underground for a lot of topics, due to the weird politics of the day. Preference falsification is in high gear now.

Think Memex, the 1945 idea, where you stored everything you ever read locally, and could spool of a dump of all of it (with context, annotation trails, etc) with no need for the internet to grant you that access again.

This gives the finger to the ideas of copyright, intellectual property, and all manner of gatekeeping. It might be the only way for free thinking people to have free discussions for the next decade or so.

Re: The Cluetrain Manifesto (1999)

#42

Post by ddingus » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

docsearls wrote: post #40

ddingus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagreed with him at the time. Found the book to be a thought provoking and enjoyable read. Over time, I have had success applying many of the ideas in the book. Small enterprises remain a place where the trends can be pushed back and more out of the way. Doing that makes for great customer relationships, high value communication and work being fun, even when it's responding to someone having trouble with the prod…

Thanks! The least quoted and most important "clue" in The Cluetrain Manifesto is the "one clue" listed above the "95 theses." Written by the very sadly late Chris Locke, it says,"we are not seats or eyeballs or end users or consumers. we are human beings and our reach exceeds your grasp. deal with it." Sadly, that has not yet been proven true. Their grasp far exceeds our reach. But that doesn't mean it always will. O…

Indeed it is early, and a fine quote.

Here's to hoping better becomes a more dominant norm!

My take on this is simple: Live and work as example. This is powerful advocacy.

Doing that does improve our corner of the world and it can be catchy. Sometimes others will go seeking and sometimes they come to us.

While that door is open, people are receptive and sharing the good ideas can have an impact. Pushing on this stuff rarely works, and it is often painful. But, when they ask, "how" or "why" in such a context, being able to speak from a solid basis often gets the idea through and into their more serious consideration.

Thanks for your efforts. I got a lot of good out of that book. I myself was seeking when I bought a copy while on business travel. The advocacy idea I put here comes from my thoughts on how to apply the ideas I found in the book.

And wow! Who knew we would be having this discussion so many years later. I appreciate you and it is nice to be able to tell you directly.

Re: The Cluetrain Manifesto (1999)

#43

Post by mkovach » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:47 PM UTC

docsearls wrote: post #39

mkovach wrote: post #9

Doc Searls and The Cluetrain Manifesto. Man, I have thought about both in quite a while. I guess I'll have to find my dusty copy hidden in some forgotten corner.

Try the 10th anniversary edition. Has more chapters, and some slightly more evolved views. And while you're at it, try The Intention Economy as well. :-)

Well, if you says so! Gonna order those up, given the source of the recommendation :)