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Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

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Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#81
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Can be purified. Activated charcoal filters are not the most efficient solution, but work reasonably well and can be easily built in an off-grid environment

> In order to make activated charcoal with all its nooks and crannies, regular carbon sources are transformed in one of two ways: either physically or chemically.

> In physical activation, wood, coal, or any regular carbon source is first heated up to 600 to 900 degrees Celsius (1000 to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit) in a chamber filled with inert gas. The inert gas ensures that the carbon doesn’t burn. Instead, as the carbon is heated, any impurities left on it are vaporized and removed, leaving nothing but pure carbon.

> Next, the pure carbon is exposed to oxygen or steam baths at even higher temperatures. This causes the carbon to fracture and form the fractal shapes with their extremely large total surface area.

> In chemical activation, raw carbon sources are mixed with an acid, base, or a salt. The mixture is then heated. Chemical activation takes less heat and less time to achieve the end result, which makes it the method of choice for large scale activation.

Doesn't look "easily" to me but that's the first link google showed me (https://www.thinkcrucial.com/blogs/blog/how-activated-charco...)

What bothers me though is that our environment is changing so much and so fast that homo sapiens could not emerge tomorrow like they did first. No way a primate without culture or science is going to regularly scramble a charcoal filter to drink water.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#82

They're finding PFAS in everything now. https://www.consumerreports.org/bottled-water/pfas-in-bottle... https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gban/rainwater-everywhere-... https://www.dcourier.com/news/2022/aug/11/prescott-valley-sh...

I just read that rainwater around the world is unsafe to drink because of PFAS contamination. https://phys.org/news/2022-08-rainwater-unsafe-due-chemicals...

Is there universal treatment for this in most countries or does this also imply that municipal water everywhere is equally "unsafe"? Some quick Googling suggests common britta filters don't remove it either, for instance.

unsafe in scare quotes because the article says environmental levels have been steady for the past 20 years and we aren't all dead yet... and lots of animals of course drink rainwater more directly out of bodies of water.

It's obviously not a good thing but I don't this means "we're doomed"... the article here cites a professor saying we just have to live with it, but it would be also interesting to see if anyone had leads on removal or any sort of mitigation/protection/neutralization schemes.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#83
This is actually very poor statistics.

Take a look at the actual study: https://www.jhep-reports.eu/article/S2589-5559(22)00122-7/fu...

And look at table 3.

They are testing 6 different types of PFAS, and only 1 is statistically significant.

They need to be using the Bonferroni Correction because they are checking multiple hypothesis. To do that, you divide the required p-value (0.05) by the number of tests (6). If you do the Bonferroni Correction, none of the PFAS is statistically significant.

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/882/

Thus the real conclusion is that the study did not find any statistically significant link between 'forever chemicals' and liver cancer.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#84
post #75
post #2

The study didn’t actually find anything related to cookware. Modern Teflon in the US doesn’t expose people to PFOA/PFOS like old version did due to new regulations. The chemicals could also be entering peoples body’s through drinking water or bioaccumulation in meat or plants. You should throw away nonstick cookware from before 2013, but new nonstick cookware sold in the US does not have PFOA. I believe the EU follow…

> I want to add that a lot of cool startups are working on PFAS remediation Just use cast iron stuff. Done.

This is about removing PFAS from your tap water. Using cast iron does not fix this. Reading the rest of the paragraph would have made that very clear.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#85
post #75
post #2

The study didn’t actually find anything related to cookware. Modern Teflon in the US doesn’t expose people to PFOA/PFOS like old version did due to new regulations. The chemicals could also be entering peoples body’s through drinking water or bioaccumulation in meat or plants. You should throw away nonstick cookware from before 2013, but new nonstick cookware sold in the US does not have PFOA. I believe the EU follow…

> I want to add that a lot of cool startups are working on PFAS remediation Just use cast iron stuff. Done.

[deleted]

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. And I say this as someone who owns and frequently cooks with stainless steel, cast iron, and non-stick, I have for decades and also worked in a professional kitchen at one point. Some things are always better in stainless or cast iron... I tend towards meats in cast iron and veggies in stainless, though it really depends. Other things are easiest in nonstick, but can be learned in stainless, like eggs sun…

> Eggs overeasy without breaking the yolk is really hard though. This is strange to hear from a professional chef. I cook eggs overeasy on my cast iron all the time. What works for me is preheating the pan on moderate heat for a minute or two, putting in a bit of butter, and using a metal spatula. Haven't had a broken egg in forever. I've certainly found you need less oil to prevent sticking on a well-seasoned cast i…

> cook eggs overeasy on my cast iron all the time

Cast iron is great in a professional kitchen. It wears well. And it benefits from frequent use. Most home cooks won't use their cast iron cookware daily, let alone multiple times a day. That affects the seasoning.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#87

Cast iron pans are cheap, will outlive you, and work nearly as well with enough seasoning / butter :)

Have you checked the your cast iron pan's seasoning for potential carcinogenic chemicals?

Organic chemicals when exposed to heat can turn into bad things (see nitrates, acrylamide).

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to add that a lot of cool startups are working on PFAS remediation Just use cast iron stuff. Done.

This is about removing PFAS from your tap water. Using cast iron does not fix this. Reading the rest of the paragraph would have made that very clear.

Or from ground water. Or from all the leachate once everyone throws out their Teflon pans.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#90
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably, PFAS are in the food supply chain to a significant and non transparent degree. Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS. The extruders that make your dried pasta and other machine parts that make other processed foods are coated with PFAS. The paper that your sandwich is packed in is coated with PFAS. The paper straw that replaced your plastic one, to save the turtles...is coated with PFAS. Did…

25%? Like, one-quarter of the mass of the salad bowl? Not parts-per-million?

yes, PFAS based chemicals are the replacement for wax in 'waxed paper' style products.
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