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Hetzner Price Adjustment

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#291

Post by netzego »

doikor wrote: post #162
PinguTS wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, if you want to make a true comparison, then nuclear is in the costs of about 40 Cents/kWh instead of the postulated 2 Cents/kWh. Because as we do not have a final deposit for nuclear waste there are no costs for it. There are only models with suggested costs. But all of this is not priced into it. A German paper produced by the independent "Wissenschaftlicher Dienst des Bundestages": https://www.bundestag.de/re…

There is no way storing the spent fuel would cost so much that it would generate 38c/kWh of costs. For example the total lifetime costs of Onkalo (Finlands spent nuclear fuel storage site) is estimated to be 3.5 billion. Lets take the new OL3 reactor as a example. It produces at 1600MW which comes to around 14 million MWh in a year so 14 billion kWh per of electricity produced yearly (slightly less in reality with do…

That is only right if we completely ignore the cost of the final disposal and such. As always in this calculations they forget to add the cost for the 15.7 billion years of nuclear waste maintenance. If we talk about the cost for the normal consumers (tax payers) this must be included. Don't you think? But if we do the profit talk, you're totally right. What a fantastic business model this is, isn't it?

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#292

Post by kaba0 »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #271
espadrine wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one knows where to put the trash They do, though. That is where the “trash” is. They have become so adept at it, they made a museum out of one facility[0]. Two misconceptions that benefit from being clarified: 1. There is very little waste for the amount of energy produced. If we only used nuclear, it would amount for 40 grams per person per year[1]. 2. The waste is not trash, it is extremely valuable. It was va…

You're talking about fuel, and we're talking about trash. From refinement to the reactor and spent fuel processing, the nuclear power industry generates a huge amount of trash that is low-grade radioactive and thus cannot be just dumped in a landfill. The nuclear industry has had over seventy years to get their act together regarding fuel recycling. They'd rather just dump it into pools on-site because it's cheapest…

> Here's an idea: let's spend the money on wind turbine blade, battery, and solar panel repurposing and recycling instead.

The two is not exclusive. You do need stable base energy production and none of the renewables solve it well. Hydro could do it, but the locations where it is appropriate are few and it has quite a big ecological impact in and of itself.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#293

Post by kaba0 »

atq2119 wrote: post #261
highwaylights wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rush out of nuclear fission power still shocks me. It's a miracle fuel. It really is wonderful. It solves climate change almost by itself, or it would have, had Chernobyl and Fukushima not been reported so irresponsibly.

Meanwhile France, a famously pro-nuclear country, has to shut down many of its nuclear power plants in summer because they can't cool them adequately. (Yes, I'm sure issues can be fixed. Point is, nuclear has an awful lot of practical problems for supposedly being miraculous.)

It still produces plenty of energy, and that much more would you have to create mostly from coal otherwise.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#294

Post by sneak »

xvilka wrote: post #136

Maybe at least increasing energy costs will force people and companies to ditch Electron-based "programs" (or Java/NodeJS in case of servers). Native is much more energy efficient by definition.

No. Most people do end user computing (where the Electron-based apps run) on laptops, which, for battery size/weight/runtime purposes, are already power constrained.

The efforts are going into making browser engines and processors more efficient.

> Native is much more energy efficient by definition.

"much more" is not true. It may be much more efficient in some cases, but with modern runtimes for interpreted code for many operations it is very close to native performance.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#295

Post by npteljes »

psy-q wrote: post #286
npteljes wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same conclusion here. Initially I used an old notebook with USB cases for full-size HDDs, nowadays it'n an older desktop PC in a midi tower, with some extra memory and HDDs. Idle power is <20W, which is most of the time. I really wanted a proper server for the cool factor, but it's just so expensive to maintain.

Were there significant downsides to the laptop solution? I have a similar setup with a NUC mounting storage from a small ARM-powered NAS, but I was thinking of changing this to an old ThinkPad X230 with just internal storage and offsite backup.

It was a really old beater, and the problems, I think, stemmed from there - think of electrical problems, because of old USB ports and such. Otherwise it was chugging along like a champ. What I like in my current setup more, is that I could upgrade it as my needs increased - in the desktop, I could fit 5 HDDs and 20G RAM, impossible with my old laptop.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#296

Post by sneak »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #9

Germany € 0.29/kWh € 0.45/kWh Finland € 0.12/kWh € 0.22/kWh Damn, why is electricity in Germany over twice as expensive as in Finland? I doubt Germans have twice the purchasing power as Finns.

There is also an energy consumption tax in Germany:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromsteuergesetz_(Deutschland...

I don't know if Finland has something equivalent or not.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#297

Post by simfree »

reaperducer wrote: post #201
bushbaba wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In sf electricity is closer to 4x that rate.

I just signed a new contract at 18.9¢/kWh + delivery. That's up from last year's contract rate of 8.1¢/kWh. With the way the world is today, we'll all be paying SF prices soon.

California's power market is heavily distorted by the private utilities needing to make a profit, extreme cost of living, and a need to import power from other states.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#298

Post by simfree »

joneskoo wrote: post #156
ReadTheLicense wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have day-ahead pricing at home? Please tell me how

Spot price (+margin) contracts became common in Finland at least some years ago. Most energy companies provide them now. The margin is something like 0.30–0.40 cent/kWh. We buy energy from any Finnish seller with contract separate from transfer of electricity (a natural monopoly).

That margin is more than many commercial and industrial customers pay in Washington State.

In the cheaper public utility districts here, the per kWh price is only double those rates, with no time of day pricing or similar shenanigans.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#299

Post by simfree »

happyopossum wrote: post #231
Timshel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27.... ) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A…

$0.15 is laughably cheap for some parts of the country... Here in California it's not uncommon to pay 3x that, so $600/yr in electricity saved by a $400 appliance is a huge deal.

Even here in expensive Seattle our top rate (when you go above 500kWh a month, which is $0.1056/kWh) is $0.1307 per kWh. If you go just north the top rate falls to $0.10/kWh, and many PUDs in the state charge around half that price.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#300

Post by layer8 »

Zr40 wrote: post #186
Symbiote wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to pay extra for only renewable electricity.

There isn't enough renewable energy yet to cover all consumption. Which means that you paying extra is only an administrative move. You're just swapping places with the party that would otherwise have consumed the renewable energy.

You’re financing the further development of renewables.
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