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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#111

Post by lucb1e »

88 wrote: post #95
lucb1e wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colo costs are just insane compared to consumer prices. At home: 12 or 42 €/month (details¹), depending on whether I want gigabit upload or not. Advantages: - fast LAN speeds, - don't need to go anywhere to do hardware maintenance/replacement/additions, - low cost, - partially solar powered if you have solar panels, - don't need to make things fit in a rack (can be a raspberry pi, an old laptop, or whatever you like)…

Does your ISP allow you to use their service to host a server? Most expressly prohibit it in their terms and conditions.

I remember in 2005 or so, there were people that got letters from their ISP to stop hosting things, and blocking port 25 was common until about 5-10 years after that but then net neutrality became more of a topic. Haven't heard of any such trouble since then.

There are also ISPs that expressly encourage it. Formerly I was with XS4ALL who encouraged it when I asked them on the phone (long time ago), nowadays their spiritual successor is Freedom Internet. I think the name says enough :)

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#112

Post by Semaphor »

88 wrote: post #95
lucb1e wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colo costs are just insane compared to consumer prices. At home: 12 or 42 €/month (details¹), depending on whether I want gigabit upload or not. Advantages: - fast LAN speeds, - don't need to go anywhere to do hardware maintenance/replacement/additions, - low cost, - partially solar powered if you have solar panels, - don't need to make things fit in a rack (can be a raspberry pi, an old laptop, or whatever you like)…

Does your ISP allow you to use their service to host a server? Most expressly prohibit it in their terms and conditions.

That is pretty uncommon in Germany (possibly illegal?), here I can host whatever I want.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#114

Post by adrian_b »

prirun wrote: post #61
lukeqsee wrote: post #4

While the pricing is interesting, I think the fact it is driven by the input costs of electricity is even more telling. The fact that electricity costs is the dominating (edit, correction: marginal ) cost of cloud computing basically means that: 1) We're up against physical barriers to lowering the cost (and ecological impact) of our clouds. 2) Optimizing for less compute will pay multi-fold dividends over the next f…

> The fact that electricity costs is the dominating cost of cloud computing In the article, they say that electricity has gone from .29 to .45 euros, a 55% increase. If electricity was the dominating cost, seems like they would have raised the price way more than 10%.

Assuming that the 10% price raise is equal to the increase of the electricity cost, that implies that after the increase the cost of the electricity represents slightly more than 25% of the price (which must also include the profit, besides the other costs).

So the electricity is not really dominating the costs, but it might still be the largest component of the cost.

There is an estimate that Amazon has a 61% profit margin for cloud services. Hetzner must have a lower profit margin, but nonetheless the electricity could be as much as half of the costs.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#115

Post by cbg0 »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #71

Just write efficient software, then you won’t need that many servers.

If you're operating at a small scale of a few servers (like most people using Hetzner), re-engineering the code that you already have to be more efficient will cost considerably more than paying your server bills for a year.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#116

Post by netzego »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #92
PinguTS wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green energy is in the costs of 8 cents/Wh. Coal is more expansive as gas always was. Only nuclear is calculated with 2 cents/Wh ignoring the costs of the nuclear waste as this paid for by taxes in addition.

Pretty sure that's included.

Pretty sure? Like it is gut feeling? If you can read German, here you can find an article from the Linke party. There are several of links to papers from the German government to the cost of that mess. I don't want to offend you, but your comment has really no value and also is wrong.

https://www.hubertus-zdebel.de/atommuell-kommt-teuer-offizie...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#117

Post by ztrww »

doikor wrote: post #36
londons_explore wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The instantaneous market price that everyone pays is the marginal cost of the most expensive power source currently online. For nearly every country worldwide, that is gas turbines most of the time. Even if 90% of power generation is coming from solar, it's the 10% gas that sets the price (since the marginal cost of installed solar is near zero). Gas prices in Europe vary by region, but are pretty much determined by…

> (Finland gets gas from Norway, and neither has big pipelines to Germany). Not really. Finland used to get gas from Russia but now it is mostly from a pipeline through Estonia to Latvia where it arrives in ships from wherever happens to be the cheapest (we are in process of building the first LNG terminal in Finland). Could be Norway but can also be USA, middle east, etc Finland just doesn't use much gas for electri…

There is no LNG terminal in Latvia the closest one is in Lithuania. Also AFAIK it doesn't even have enough capacity for the three baltic states let alone Finland. So chances are you most of the gas your buying through Estonia is Russian, just sold be some reseller.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#118

Post by tzahifadida »

spaceheater wrote: post #96
tzahifadida wrote: post #43

Worth it, especially because of the reasons the prices of electricity went up.

Worth how? Sanctions achieved nothing on the military front. Is it more of a scaremongering thing? 'If we didn't do it, things would have been much worse'?

I am not talking about strategy but my own feeling that I don't mind to pay the increase. My wife family was wiped out in the holocaust. I don't think that sitting and doing nothing is a better option. And I do really not wanting to start an argument about it. As I said, it is a feeling and I am not a general and I have no knowledge of what is best.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#119

Post by PinguTS »

Nimitz14 wrote: post #92
PinguTS wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green energy is in the costs of 8 cents/Wh. Coal is more expansive as gas always was. Only nuclear is calculated with 2 cents/Wh ignoring the costs of the nuclear waste as this paid for by taxes in addition.

Pretty sure that's included.

Nope, if you want to make a true comparison, then nuclear is in the costs of about 40 Cents/kWh instead of the postulated 2 Cents/kWh.

Because as we do not have a final deposit for nuclear waste there are no costs for it. There are only models with suggested costs. But all of this is not priced into it.

A German paper produced by the independent "Wissenschaftlicher Dienst des Bundestages": https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/887090/1867659c1d4edc...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#120

Post by Sebb767 »

lucb1e wrote: post #67
Semaphor wrote: post #7

Interesting that the colo electricity cost goes up that much, that’s a lot more expensive than what I will pay as a normal consumer, I’d have thought they’d get better discounts.

Colo costs are just insane compared to consumer prices. At home: 12 or 42 €/month (details¹), depending on whether I want gigabit upload or not. Advantages: - fast LAN speeds, - don't need to go anywhere to do hardware maintenance/replacement/additions, - low cost, - partially solar powered if you have solar panels, - don't need to make things fit in a rack (can be a raspberry pi, an old laptop, or whatever you like)…

> At home: 12 or 42 €/month (details¹), depending on whether I want gigabit upload or not.

For me it's either 40€ a month if I want Gigabit down or move to a different city in case I want Gigabit up. Which is actually pretty good for current German standards; most can only dream of Gigabit down. Also, your home link is meager compared to a Gigabit link with proper redundant links to IXPs.

If you have a big home with solar power, appropriate cooling, a good connection and space to stuff servers away then yes, you can outprice collocation - but that's excluding a lot of costs you had before; if I was already running a server farm, collocating my servers would be even cheaper ;) If, however, you live in a flat in a city or in a rural area with bad connection [0], these prices are very competitive.

[0] So, most of Germany.

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