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Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

arstechnica.com

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Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#41

Post by haunter »

dataflow wrote: post #28
haunter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 2nd step https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ If you just Google then it's usually called leased or dedicated internet Just some (US) examples https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet... https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-intern... https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-...

So they're leasing ("buying"?) fiber from the same ISPs they're trying to displace and relying on that payment to provide them with continued internet access? This doesn't sound like a real first-class ISP, but something akin to an MVNO where they're at the mercy of the same companies they're competing with. I get the initial sale might seem fine, and the established ISPs might be fine with this as long as the compan…

>This doesn't sound like a real first-class ISP

I'm not an expert but afaik you can't just be a Tier 1 network member https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network

Even Tier 2 very limited https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network

In this guide's case yes you will be akin to an MVNO, you won't peer but just buying transit traffic. That's why most of these guides are also focusing on making the network wireless only (easier to build infrastructure)

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#42

Post by tyen_ »

rvnx wrote: post #20
deelowe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this sentiment. Taxes are levied to then pay for things such as infrastructure which this qualifies as. How else should this work?

You are a private person and you choose to live deep in the country-side / on a desert / on an island / remote location / deep in the forest. Who should pay for your road, your electricity, your water, your internet connection when you are the one mostly benefiting from it ? Taxes have to be used primarily with the goal to maximize public interest, not the interests of single private persons. Perhaps a Starlink conne…

That's fair, maybe this family should be able to opt out of taxes that don't benefit them then, you know since they are so remote and everything.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#43

Post by kloch »

jtap wrote: post #35

He presented at an online nanog event. You can watch it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twe6uTwOyJo I did enjoy listening.

Jared has been participating in Nanog since forever. I have always looked up to him as a top-tier engineer.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#44

Post by dkhenry »

bluedino wrote: post #27
dkhenry wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its so expensive that Comcast only made a profit of 42 Billion in 2021, while providing a lower quality of service than what a small ISP in Michigan can give you for a one time 2M in government grants.

The little guy in Michigan also doesn't own the NBC broadcasting network, theme parks... Comcast didn't make $42B off it's cable subscribers.

You should check their quarterly earnings I think you would be shocked. In the second quarter Cable and Broadband account for 7.4 Billion in profit, and have a profit margin near 50%. NBC Universal only accounts for 1.9 Billion and their theme parks are 632 Million. By far cable is the largest driver of profit.

https://www.cmcsa.com/news-releases/news-release-details/com...

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#45

Post by burntsushi »

qwe----3 wrote: post #2

> over $30,000 for each of those homes to get served This doesn't seem very efficient to me.

It's funny because he said one of the houses needed 0.5 miles of cable. My jaw dropped when he said it would only be $30K for that.

I'm speaking as someone who has had a few hundred foot trenches dug in my yard for running cable. Extrapolating it to 0.5 miles would come out to a lot more than $30K.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#47

Post by beeboop »

Bloating wrote: post #33
TrueGeek wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: he had $2.6MM in help from the "American Rescue Plan's Coronavirus State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds". He's being paid by the government to bring Internet access to homes in the state that aren't currently wired for it.

Gotta pay your fair share, so it can be granted out for someone elses gain

Are you also concerned about your tax dollars paying for roads in the next neighborhood over?

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#48

Post by gvb »

rvnx wrote: post #20
deelowe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this sentiment. Taxes are levied to then pay for things such as infrastructure which this qualifies as. How else should this work?

You are a private person and you choose to live deep in the country-side / on a desert / on an island / remote location / deep in the forest. Who should pay for your road, your electricity, your water, your internet connection when you are the one mostly benefiting from it ? Taxes have to be used primarily with the goal to maximize public interest, not the interests of single private persons. Perhaps a Starlink conne…

> Perhaps a Starlink connection would have been enough for them and perfectly fine if it's a single family.

Oh the irony... Starlink is also tapping (federal) government subsidies to provide internet service to rural areas. Tapping government subsidies is a very important part of Starlink's plan to become profitable.

Ref: "SpaceX's Starlink wins nearly $900 million in FCC subsidies to bring internet to rural areas" https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/07/spacex-starlink-wins-nearly-...

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#49

Post by mbreese »

dataflow wrote: post #28
haunter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 2nd step https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ If you just Google then it's usually called leased or dedicated internet Just some (US) examples https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet... https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-intern... https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-...

So they're leasing ("buying"?) fiber from the same ISPs they're trying to displace and relying on that payment to provide them with continued internet access? This doesn't sound like a real first-class ISP, but something akin to an MVNO where they're at the mercy of the same companies they're competing with. I get the initial sale might seem fine, and the established ISPs might be fine with this as long as the compan…

Because there are different business units in the upstream company handling the dedicated access vs consumer sides. The dedicated business side have their own sales goals and if you compete with the consumer side, that’s not a problem for them. I’m sure there are some regulatory/anti competitive measures at play here too, but economically, the two sides of the business will act more or less independently.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#50

Post by brianwawok »

burntsushi wrote: post #45
qwe----3 wrote: post #2

> over $30,000 for each of those homes to get served This doesn't seem very efficient to me.

It's funny because he said one of the houses needed 0.5 miles of cable. My jaw dropped when he said it would only be $30K for that. I'm speaking as someone who has had a few hundred foot trenches dug in my yard for running cable. Extrapolating it to 0.5 miles would come out to a lot more than $30K.

You get bigger machines, which do work faster.
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