“It’s time for Apple to fix texting” • Hacker News Board

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#401

Post by kelnos » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:46 PM UTC

trebbble wrote: post #46

s17n wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone in the US (if there is at least one android user in the chat)

US here. On the old end of "millennial", if that matters. More than 95% of my personal communication with other humans I know (remote communication, that is, not in-person, obviously) is in WhatsApp. The rest is phone and SMS and that's all older family. SMS, like email, is mainly for machines to talk to me.

I won't claim like a sibling that this is "wild", because I think it's not that surprising that different people have different social circles and different group dynamics. But I too am an older US millennial (xennial, if we want to be trendy and overly specific), and my one-on-one communications are almost all on SMS. My group chats are mostly on Signal, WhatsApp, and Slack. I have a few one-on-one chats on Signal and WhatsApp, but the bulk of them are over SMS.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#402

Post by kart23 » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:46 PM UTC

obnauticus wrote: post #6

I would agree more if the RCS standard wasn’t also hot garbage… I would encourage anyone who is curious to read more about it. It’s taken so long to gain traction that it has also become somewhat legacy. Also, it still requires a carrier sponsored phone plan? How is this “modern” in comparison to say every other carrier agnostic messaging app in existence? Also this: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480679515298…

ehhhh, that twitter post is weird. It's like your phone number. You're free to switch carriers, and just like a phone number, you lose it if you stop paying. It's not designed to replace whatsapp, its replacing sms.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#403

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:47 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #373

ThatPlayer wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's illegal tying[0]. Google used to force Chrome and Google Search as part of Google Play Store requirements. And were fined a few years ago by the EU[1]. Pretty much most of this reasoning could be applied to a messaging app too. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...

Why didn't Apple & iMessage run afoul of this same thing? Is it because Google was forcing third-party manufacturers to include things, but Apple of course just doesn't have that issue?

> Is it because Google was forcing third-party manufacturers to include things, but Apple of course just doesn't have that issue?

Yes.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#404

Post by baby » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:47 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #192

radiojasper wrote: post #122

I still don't get why people use SMS/MMS anyway? I've been using WhatsApp for ages now and so does everybody else in my country - and every country I've been in, apart from China and Japan. My friend who's from the US once said "I've paid for those text messages, so I'm going to use them!" But if I send him a text from Europe to the US, I pay 1 damn euro per delivered text. WhatsApp is free! Is there any viable reaso…

SMS is the only federated messaging system guaranteed available on all cell phones. That makes it more useful than any walled garden.

Not end to end encrypted lol

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#405

Post by baby » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #327

radiojasper wrote: post #122

I still don't get why people use SMS/MMS anyway? I've been using WhatsApp for ages now and so does everybody else in my country - and every country I've been in, apart from China and Japan. My friend who's from the US once said "I've paid for those text messages, so I'm going to use them!" But if I send him a text from Europe to the US, I pay 1 damn euro per delivered text. WhatsApp is free! Is there any viable reaso…

Because most Americans are texting for free

So does the rest of the world

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#406

Post by kelnos » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #353

trebbble wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not, so it isn't.

You just said 95% of your communication happens through one app, if that isn't locked in then what is it, locked in with visitation rights?

"Locked in" doesn't just mean "I use a single thing for everything".

It means that switching costs are high. With the exception of losing chat history (which I was surprised to find most people don't seem to care about), switching costs between chat platforms are virtually nonexistent.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#407

Post by baby » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

s17n wrote: post #11

boesboes wrote: post #4

Who uses sms anymore these days? I tried to go back to a non-smart phone, but it was impossible due to not having whatsapp. That might be a 'local' thing though, not sure. Anyway, they should just release imessage for android; that would piss off meta too, which is a win in my book ;)

Everyone in the US (if there is at least one android user in the chat)

I’m in the US and everyone I know uses whatsapp

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#408

Post by inferiorhuman » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

bentcorner wrote: post #350

radicaldreamer wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn’t affect everyone and aesthetics are not equal to accessibility? I do agree that the green bubbles aren’t great looking but thats what they chose for iOS even prior to iMessage existing.

> Because it doesn’t affect everyone and aesthetics are not equal to accessibility? The thing with accessibility is that it does affect everyone. If you get woken up by a call and open iMessage in the middle of the night, being able to read the message accurately while blinking away eye gunk matters. Better contrast helps you read your text message if your phone is on a table across from you lying flat. There's going…

  If you get woken up by a call and open iMessage in the middle of the night,
  being able to read the message accurately while blinking away eye gunk matters.

The only green text bubbles are for text you send via SMS. Incoming text is styled the same regardless of protocol.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#409

Post by kart23 » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:49 PM UTC

I and a ton of other kids switched to iphones in HS purely because of imessage. Google knows how big a lock-in factor it is. the wsj article from a while ago is actually the truth: group chats are terrible, mms just doesn't work, etc.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-...

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#410

Post by lern_too_spel » Tue, Aug 09, 2022, 11:49 PM UTC

altairprime wrote: post #91

lern_too_spel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can be built trivially using this API. The app stores an identifier, which it knows has not been tampered with because of attestation. Giving apps access to a unique device identifier shared across apps is a privacy leak but can be obtained with the proper scary permission.

> Giving apps access to a unique device identifier shared across apps is a privacy leak Correct: 'Non-heuristic antispam' and 'Private device identifiers' are incompatible requirements, unless you introduce another expensive obstacle to overcome. Spamming depends on cheap/free sock puppet accounts. The cost per account is inversely proportional to the value it holds to spammers. That cost can be in Apple's iMessage t…

I just showed how Apple could implement exactly its method on Android. I'm not sure why you're looking for other methods.

As far as private antispam, you can imagine a hashcash-like system that takes into account how many messages you've accepted from the sender, but this is a completely different discussion.