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How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

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Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#381

Post by deaddodo »

pkid wrote: post #365
deaddodo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a laptop with the AMD 6900HS. The CPU is great. It’s power envelope and performance feel amazing. My biggest complaint is the there is a very limited selection of Laptops with AMD’s chips, especially the top tier. The one I bought required me to replace the Wifi/Bluetooth card (it came with a barely “supported” MediaTek one) for Linux.

I have loved Linux for a couple decades. It was a difficult decision to migrate to the M1. Linux is so much more responsive and pliable. However Asus encouraged me. After owning three of their laptops in the past 18 months that began to fall apart anywhere from 3-12 months-I was done. Unfortunately most 5/6900hs laptops are not flagship quality. Typically they are lower-mid range gaming units. This is my first mac. T…

I’m using the Zephyrus G14. I wouldn’t call the build quality bad.

It’s a more traditional style than a Unibody, sure. But it’s fine.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#382

Post by washadjeffmad »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #322
washadjeffmad wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After running benchmarks on Intel and AMD CPUs from that era with mitigations, it's clear Intel never really had a performance lead due to design. That alone rewrites the entire "state of AMD" narrative. If Intel only had a competitive advantage during that era because they traded performance for security, was there ever really an advantage? I personally don't think Gelsinger is going to be able to fix their culture…

> they traded performance for security, was there ever really an advantage Security is important, I would always prefer a secure product. But given design habits that elide security for performance, as well as a compromised supply chain, the only choice we have is to side with the devil(s) we know.

It's just awareness that Intel hasn't shown they have any qualms about willfully overselling capability or externalizing technical debts.

Even with longer fulfillment timelines, availability isn't necessary worth the surprise cost of competitiveness.

Lifecycling early and having to buy additional hardware to meet capacity was passed onto our customers.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#383

Post by wtallis »

paulmd wrote: post #338
rowanG077 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. AMD CPUs do not include NVME controllers for example. There probably are more things AMD does not do on the CPU itself.

[citation needed] Cezanne SOC topology: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ix6FrojFD7anKypadF2vKM.jpg Rembrandt SOC topology: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/8wnuFCokmeHjESuSbzYWMJ.jpg Even on the desktop processors, there are onboard lanes dedicated to the NVMe itself, and the entire processor (including NVMe) is capable of booting without a supporting chipset at all - the "X300 chipset" is actually not a chipset a…

AMD processors provide PCIe lanes, some of which are intended for use with NVMe SSDs but nothing on the chip actually implements or understands NVMe and the lanes used for the SSD in a typical system design are still fully generic PCIe lanes.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#384

Post by qzw »

beebeepka wrote: post #334
buildbot wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the ARM frontend casually thrown in there, I wonder if that project is back on the table these days.

I feel the project was put on hold purely for business reasons, as in there's still a lot of money to be made on x86.

That and Microsoft has had an exclusivity agreement with Qualcomm for Windows on ARM. Once that agreement expires, I expect AMD to suddenly have some very interesting offerings.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#385

Post by qzw »

ncmncm wrote: post #349
ant6n wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s remember AMD was absolute garbage for like 10 years until around 2016, when they finally bounced back. And they were getting closer and closer to bankruptcy, having to flog the silver - their fabs and even their campus. I’d say the Zen design and tsmc saved them (or Lisa Su and Keller). Intel is in a better position financially than AMD was, and could catch up again. I tend to think it depends a lot on the orga…

Intel is in an even better position now than last month, being handed $billions ($tens of billions?) of US tax dollars to fund building new fabs, which they would have had to build anyway. That will free up money to use in undercutting chip pricing, helping to bury AMD again.

Intel should realize at this point that their existential threat comes from TSMC, not AMD. AMD is one competitor, but TSMC is giving a huge boost to all of their competitors, particularly the ARM vendors who won’t just take some x86 market share but potentially destroy the entire x86 market at some point in the future.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#386

Post by kibwen »

Delk wrote: post #305
alt227 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So I'm faced with having to log out and power off every day When did this become a chore? I do this as standard and imo all people should. SSD Boot times these days are mostly under a minute and you get a fresh desktop every time. EDIT: In fact I am one of the sysadmins which so many seem to despise on here. I have hybrid sleep and fast startup disabled by group policy on all my windows domain networks. It reduces s…

I don't care about boot times but I do care about keeping state. In addition to the obvious browser I typically have an IDE, a few terminal windows, email, a few communication clients (due to internal and customer choices, not mine), and usually one or two database clients open at most times. Some of those restore their state nicely while others don't. Some of the terminal windows have e.g. a particular set of termin…

Seconded. My working state is crucial and keeps me on track. For someone with ADD, needing to overcome the inertia of setting up all my apps just the way I left them every single day would be catastrophic for my productivity. I refuse to reboot more than once a month, and only then if an OS update requires it.

The year is $CURRENT_YEAR, needing to reboot a system should be regarded as a last resort and a relic of the past. No matter how much effort you dump into making apps remember their state when they're closed, it will always be strictly inferior to just dumping RAM to disk.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#387

Post by commoner »

lhl wrote: post #105
exyi wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite a bit more expensive than complaining on HN, or just buying a Lenovo

The HP EliteBooks (and the new Dev One Linux variant) also have trackpoints. Just in case anyone's interested in making their own though, I've seen a few DIY trackpoint projects over the years (mostly on custom mechs, not laptop keyboards though). Here's a writeup on one: https://edryd.org/posts/tp-mk/

The problem with many of HP's laptops that have pointing sticks, including the HP Dev One, is that they lack a middle mouse button for scrolling and middle-clicking. All Lenovo TrackPoints have that middle mouse button, which lets you scroll with the TrackPoint when it's held down.

HP Dev One keyboard (no middle mouse button): https://media.graphassets.com/TdgqLuYTbeGM2oI8PWsV

ThinkPad Carbon X1 keyboard (with middle mouse button): https://www.lenovo.com/medias/lenovo-laptop-thinkpad-x1-carb...

A keyboard with a pointing stick and no middle mouse button is a waste. Hopefully, any pointing stick keyboard for the Framework Laptop will include this button.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#388

Post by Beltalowda »

ant6n wrote: post #174
pedrocr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AMD offerings are much closer to M1 although they're not yet on TSMC 5nm so they don't quite match it. It's a historic event. Intel was #1 in laptops for an eternity. Even when the Pentium 4 was being outclassed by AMD Intel still kept the crown in mobile. This time around they first got overtaken by AMD and then by Apple and are now #3. Puts into perspective how huge of a miss their process node fail was.

Let’s remember AMD was absolute garbage for like 10 years until around 2016, when they finally bounced back. And they were getting closer and closer to bankruptcy, having to flog the silver - their fabs and even their campus. I’d say the Zen design and tsmc saved them (or Lisa Su and Keller). Intel is in a better position financially than AMD was, and could catch up again. I tend to think it depends a lot on the orga…

> AMD was absolute garbage for like 10 years until around 2016

Their top performance was lower than Intel in many cases, but it was certainly not "absolute garbage". For low- to mid-range they offered similar performance with usually a (much) lower price point. For normal "average person" usage they were often the better choice in terms of "bang for your buck".

The main reason we were selling Intels is because we got a rebate from Intel for every CPU we sold. Financially it didn't really matter if we sold a €400 computer, €500, or €600 computer: the profit margin for us was roughly identical (a little bit more, but not much), but with Intel you got a rebate back-channelled, so then it did matter.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#389

Post by muttled »

jvanderbot wrote: post #275
SpacePortKnight wrote: post #104

In a laptop, I care far more about battery life and the fan noise. However, Intel 12th gen is only able to pull these impressive performance feats due to very high turbo boost clocks. It's not that Intel is bad, it's still pretty great but in the age of M1 I wish Intel released a processor with similar power consumption. I use my Intel i5-1240p with turbo boost disabled when on battery. Here's the geekbench with TB d…

You can usually use the "Xtreme Tuning Utility" (by Intel) to scale down without disabling turbo boost. I use it to scale my ~4.8 Ghz cores to 3.2 Ghz, so they can run without fans on my small form factor PC. 3.2 Ghz x 8 is enough to run most my favorite games. Without TB, I'm down to 8x 2.4, which is a bit sluggish.

I'll echo the concern about the turboboost really helping at times. Often, you have a single-threaded process running that benefits from a single core running at a higher clock rate for a short period of time and improves the experience tremendously.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#390

Post by biomcgary »

pkid wrote: post #365
deaddodo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a laptop with the AMD 6900HS. The CPU is great. It’s power envelope and performance feel amazing. My biggest complaint is the there is a very limited selection of Laptops with AMD’s chips, especially the top tier. The one I bought required me to replace the Wifi/Bluetooth card (it came with a barely “supported” MediaTek one) for Linux.

I have loved Linux for a couple decades. It was a difficult decision to migrate to the M1. Linux is so much more responsive and pliable. However Asus encouraged me. After owning three of their laptops in the past 18 months that began to fall apart anywhere from 3-12 months-I was done. Unfortunately most 5/6900hs laptops are not flagship quality. Typically they are lower-mid range gaming units. This is my first mac. T…

Similar position. The existence of Asahi Linux convinced me to buy my first Mac, since it increased the odds that my M1 Air would be usable (to me) long-term.
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