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How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

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Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#331

Post by Rebelgecko »

senttoschool wrote: post #157
Rebelgecko wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Cinebench scores in the linked post vs some M2 benchmarks, the M2 (score of 1695) is comparable to the bottom tier 12th gen Framework in the single core benchmark (framework scores: [1691, 1723, 1839]. On the multi-core benchmark, the M2 is significantly worse- 8714 vs [9631, 10027, 11076]. The main advantage of the M2s is probably battery life.

Cinebench is a terrible benchmark and heavily favors CPUs that have many slow CPU cores. Also, Cinebench is not optimized for ARM instructions. If you are buying a computer to use Cinema4D or gaming, Intel and and AMD will be better. If you're buying a computer to do just about everything else, then Apple is better.

If better benchmarks exist and you happen to have the scores handy, feel free to post the comparisons but I feel like my work here is done.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#332

Post by smoldesu »

sharms wrote: post #320
smoldesu wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, all Macbooks will get pretty hot running Docker, Apple's fan curves will always let your machine heat up before being audible.

I am not sure how accurate this is - I have run my Macbook M1 in clamshell mode for the past year and have almost never heard the fans, and never even felt heat coming off of it, despite having Docker / JetBrains full IDEs open

Running a local dev environment tends to hit ~75c for me on Apple Silicon, I think across 4 or 5 containers. I've also this same environment on my Thinkpad T460s (with a paltry i7 6600u), which settles out around 45-50c.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#333

Post by jayd16 »

bodge5000 wrote: post #146
sercand wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people just don't game at all. Also, a lot of people like me prefer different gaming and work setup (and different rooms) in order to achieve better work-life balance. I build games on my M1 machine, just don't play on it.

How is M1 for game dev? I've been thinking of getting one for my own personal laptop, but have had a few concerns, mostly just due to the issues of building software on a totally different platform to the majority of your target users (which'll be Windows, x86). I used to have some compatibility worries but I'd guess they've gone away now.

It depends on the type of game you're shipping. Not every library has caught up to offer a mac arm binary. You still see some Rosetta problems here and there.

You can't dual boot so you can't natively run the game you're working on. The graphics are integrated so you can't test on a PC GPU. VR dev doesn't work at all.

Lots of small things but if you also have a PC its not so bad unless you need some library that just doesn't work.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#334

Post by beebeepka »

buildbot wrote: post #267
tester756 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jim Keller? IC: A few people consider you 'The Father of Zen', do you think you’d scribe to that position? Or should that go to somebody else? JK: Perhaps one of the uncles. There were a lot of really great people on Zen. There was a methodology team that was worldwide, the SoC team was partly in Austin and partly in India, the floating-point cache was done in Colorado, the core execution front end was in Austin, the…

I love the ARM frontend casually thrown in there, I wonder if that project is back on the table these days.

I feel the project was put on hold purely for business reasons, as in there's still a lot of money to be made on x86.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#335

Post by kcb »

kaliszad wrote: post #327
sharms wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The newer AMD 6xxx series supports Thunderbolt 3 and USB 4 (USB 4 spec includes TB3), which has quite a few compatible docking stations available

Formally yes, but it isn't listed e.g. in the ThinkPad T14 Gen3 (AMD) specs as supported, they are all USB 3.2 only. No TB, no USB 4. TB 3 seems to be optional in the USB 4 spec, as it would need to support 40 Gbps speeds and not "only" 20 Gbps.

The T14s Gen 3 has USB 4 support listed. Lenovo is all over the place with which AMD models support it.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#336

Post by kllrnohj »

senttoschool wrote: post #155
nrp wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Cinebench R23 (the main CPU benchmark we use) runs for 10 minutes, so it’s a measure of sustained performance. Boost (PL2) is typically 30 seconds or less with a long period after that of staying at the PL1 limit.

Also note that Cinebench R23 is a terrible general purpose CPU benchmark. It uses Intel Embree engine which is hand optimized for x86. It heavily favors CPUs with many slow cores even though most people will benefit from CPUs with fewer, faster cores. Cinebench is a great benchmark if you use Cinema4D, which I asumme 99.99% of the people buying these laptops won't use. Cinema4D is a niche of a niche. Geekbench is far…

> Geekbench is far more representative of what kind of performance you can expect from a CPU.

Geekbench is an even worse benchmark than cinebench. It's extremely heavily influenced by the underlying OS rather than the hardware being compared.

Cinebench 1T and mT at least actually benchmark the hardware.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#337

Post by cowtools »

pcai wrote: post #181
SpacePortKnight wrote: post #104

In a laptop, I care far more about battery life and the fan noise. However, Intel 12th gen is only able to pull these impressive performance feats due to very high turbo boost clocks. It's not that Intel is bad, it's still pretty great but in the age of M1 I wish Intel released a processor with similar power consumption. I use my Intel i5-1240p with turbo boost disabled when on battery. Here's the geekbench with TB d…

We all wish intel could release a processor with similar power consumption to the m1, but it's not like they just overlooked battery life. x86 is just fundamentally not competitive with arm on that front, unfortunately. The only advantage it seems to have from an architecture standpoint is raw performance

They have the "intel atom" brand for low-power CPUs

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#338

Post by paulmd »

rowanG077 wrote: post #316
mastax wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD's laptop CPUs are also "everything in one chip." Intel still has a separate chipset die on the package as far as I can tell.

This is not true. AMD CPUs do not include NVME controllers for example. There probably are more things AMD does not do on the CPU itself.

[citation needed]

Cezanne SOC topology: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ix6FrojFD7anKypadF2vKM.jpg

Rembrandt SOC topology: https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/8wnuFCokmeHjESuSbzYWMJ.jpg

Even on the desktop processors, there are onboard lanes dedicated to the NVMe itself, and the entire processor (including NVMe) is capable of booting without a supporting chipset at all - the "X300 chipset" is actually not a chipset at all, it is just using the SOC itself without an external chipset, and you do not lose NVMe functionality.

Not sure if you are using some really weird meaning of "NVMe controller" that doesn't match what anyone else means?

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#339

Post by selectodude »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #303
KingOfCoders wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the M1/M2 performance versions are much more expensive (very large L1/L2 caches, see Ryzen vs Ryzen X3D performance, and that only increases cheap L3 cache) than AMD processors. Apple can afford this I assume with high end laptop and their margins from owning the supply chain. Apple has the benefit of not telling and you can't buy an M1 (?). I would be interested about production costs of Ryzen vs. M1/M2 pro…

Also because I assume ARM needs less transistors compared to x86 so they can use more die area for caches.

If you look at die shots of any new chip, x86 or ARM, the actual CPU cores are taking up a smaller and smaller percentage of the die.

Re: How fast is 12th Gen Intel Core?

#340

Post by ncmncm »

siwyd wrote: post #328
deaddodo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a laptop with the AMD 6900HS. The CPU is great. It’s power envelope and performance feel amazing. My biggest complaint is the there is a very limited selection of Laptops with AMD’s chips, especially the top tier. The one I bought required me to replace the Wifi/Bluetooth card (it came with a barely “supported” MediaTek one) for Linux.

Which one did you get? I was looking at Linux laptops with this CPU, but the line-up is very limited.

Me too. I just gave up and bought an ASUS H5600QM with a 5900HX (and 3840x2400 OLED, 32G socketed RAM, 2 NVMe sockets, and 3 physical touchpad buttons). If you act fast, you can still buy the version with Windows 10 and a GTX 3070 at $1999, instead of Windows 11 and a GTX 3060 for $254 more.

Build quality is excellent, but the first one died after 2 days: charge light wouldn't even go on. Waiting for #2. Wish me luck!

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