Quoted post unavailable.
Like you I'm still on the fence, but lately I'm leaning that the Titanic was unseaworthy.
No post body was provided.
FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
41–50 of 90 posts
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#42I strongly believe there is probable cause to be found that Trump committed crimes, but I can't help but ask if these hunts against former presidents are positive for the future peace and prosperity of America.
Is this a hunt? There is already a large body of evidence that he attempted to destroy records that he was legally obligated to keep, and quite a few credible claims that he succeeded by flushing records down the toilet. To say nothing of the emoluments clause. Trump was entrusted with the highest office of the land, and flagrantly violated the laws and his oaths. At the head of the party that consistently claims tha…
[deleted]
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#43I strongly believe there is probable cause to be found that Trump committed crimes, but I can't help but ask if these hunts against former presidents are positive for the future peace and prosperity of America.
Making sure no one is above the law is a cornerstone of our legal system, so I would argue it is in fact essential. Of course this is assuming there must be really strong probable cause in this case.
If "being above the law" is discretionary prosecution and investigation letting some people off the hook, then it actually is for good or ill a cornerstone of our legal system. FBI has broad discretionary ability to pick and choose who to go after, and ensuring that is done in a uniform and politically unbiased way could arguably trump priority of any particular person being prosecuted.
It may be the case this is not politically motivated. But were there cases where investigations are politically motivated, I would much rather see those people get away than political bias of investigatory agencies being used to undermine democratic system, even if the criminals themselves were also undermining the democratic system.
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#44Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Say it with me: "Trump tried to stay in power via a violent coup."
Editing to not be so snarky. I can’t wrap my head around the coup thing. Trump said peacefully go to the capitol. So a bunch of people some which were let into the capitol (there’s a recent Jan 6 defendant let go due to the judge agreeing with this defense) went in. How could this lead to a coup or taking over the government? Is our country so fragile that occupying 1 building brings the whole system down?
> Trump said peacefully go to the capitol.
If that were the _only_ thing he did, he'd be in no trouble. You need to look at the whole picture, not crop out everything incriminating if you want to actually be able to see.
He knew they were armed, knew they were violent, ramped up their anger and pointed them at the Capitol.
He also very likely worked with radical paramilitary outfits like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers and a few others that planned and executed violent attacks on the Capitol.
Additionally, he refused to call off his supporters or to send in effective police or military until hours too late (or never really, last I heard only Pence did, and Trump never did).
> Is our country so fragile that occupying 1 building brings the whole system down?
Pretty much, yes. Our democracy is in many ways set up on the honor system.
Trump and his conspirators planned to delay certification of the vote past the deadline and get the outcome of the election voted on by the House (in a special one-vote-per-state vote). This goes in tandem with their recruiting false electors, pressuring state legislatures, falsely asking the DOJ to announge phony investigations, etc.
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Making sure no one is above the law is a cornerstone of our legal system, so I would argue it is in fact essential. Of course this is assuming there must be really strong probable cause in this case.
If "being above the law" is discretionary prosecution and investigation letting some people off the hook, then it actually is for good or ill a cornerstone of our legal system. FBI has broad discretionary ability to pick and choose who to go after, and ensuring that is done in a uniform and politically unbiased way could arguably trump priority of any particular person being prosecuted. It may be the case this is not…
If our leaders can break the law without consequence, it undermines everything. The rich and powerful in the US need to be under _more_ scrutiny, not less.
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
If "being above the law" is discretionary prosecution and investigation letting some people off the hook, then it actually is for good or ill a cornerstone of our legal system. FBI has broad discretionary ability to pick and choose who to go after, and ensuring that is done in a uniform and politically unbiased way could arguably trump priority of any particular person being prosecuted. It may be the case this is not…
If our leaders can break the law without consequence, it undermines everything. The rich and powerful in the US need to be under _more_ scrutiny, not less.
There was definitely consequences. Trump was voted out of office as a result of the various crimes the people witnessed. Also there was an impeachment that failed to convict.
Also I'm not sure the prosecution of any particular individual necessarily outweighs the need to keep our justice system politically unbiased. Again I'd much prefer people go free rather than FBI and other agencies being used in a politically biased manner to undermine democracy. I'm not saying that is what is happening here, although it could be the case.
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#48Quoted post unavailable.
> similarly weaponizes the FBI
This is a big, fairly bad assumption, seemingly based on nothing.
Biden has been, if anything, too unwilling to push for any investigation into Trump's misdeeds. The DOJ did essentially nothing to look at J6 until the House committee shamed them into it, for instance.
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
If our leaders can break the law without consequence, it undermines everything. The rich and powerful in the US need to be under _more_ scrutiny, not less.
There was definitely consequences. Trump was voted out of office as a result of the various crimes the people witnessed. Also there was an impeachment that failed to convict. Also I'm not sure the prosecution of any particular individual necessarily outweighs the need to keep our justice system politically unbiased. Again I'd much prefer people go free rather than FBI and other agencies being used in a politically bi…
> Trump was voted out of office as a result of the various crimes the people witnessed.
That's not enough. If it's all just politics, then it's part of the game. We need law enforcement to stand up and do their job. "Some people are pretty sure I'm a criminal" isn't the same thing as a court of law saying it.
> Also there was an impeachment that failed to convict.
That's barely a consequence. It did essentially nothing.
> Also I'm not sure the prosecution of any particular individual necessarily outweighs the need to keep our justice system politically unbiased.
The justice system isn't seen as politically unbiased by the people who will yell about Trump getting prosecuted anyway. If they're going to cry bias regardless, let's drag the evidence into a court of law and shine some sunlight on it.
Re: FBI Searches Trump’s Home in Florida
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
I'd say that if they have probable cause, and they almost certainly do, this is heartening evidence of the rule of law, not weakness.
That would be true if any of the members of the party in power were ever prosecuted for their crimes.
The core problem here is that the only attribute which correlates to likelihood of being prosecuted for alleged crimes is "political party affiliation"