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Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

wsj.com

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#191

Post by prvit »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #140
prvit wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are “The staff at the charter jet terminal” supposed to address this? Those are the people GP called “criminally clueless”, suggesting that the lack of pre-departure controls for private jets will cause the next 9/11.

I'm not saying that private charter flights should get the whole TSA treatment. They certainly shouldn't. I'm just saying, when you run into some people who claim to be classical musicians but who don't look or behave anything like any musicians you've ever heard of, who are travelling on an unusual schedule with unusual luggage, who ask a lot of oddly-specific questions about security, who seem overly concerned with…

> it's worth at least a quick ping to airport security.

“airport security” generally doesn’t show up for free, it’s a paid service.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#192

Post by kwere »

closedloop129 wrote: post #76

How good is he as a manager? Would Nissan be a better company if they had kept him at the top?

he was a genius in automotive management, turned around south american division of michelin in less than 2 years. saved Nissan from bankrupcy in few years by cost cutting everything that wasnt extremely necessary, throwed away alls "zaibatsu culture things" and promoted by skill not "age". he really went against japanese corporate norms.[0]

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn#Career

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#193

Post by kwere »

throwoutway wrote: post #19
mrtksn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is rich and able, I would have done the same if I was in his shoes so I don't judge him from moral perspective. I'm on the same page with the Germans on this one, i.e. it shouldn't be a crime and it's not wrong to escape from prison. That said, not being him, I really don't like the narrative built around how Japanese prisons are horrible and it's justified to not serve for crimes in Japan. I also wonder if the "J…

> it's not wrong to escape from prison. Uh, yes it is. Maybe if you’re imprisoned illegally (kidnapping or by kangaroo court) but in the general case—in a democracy with actual courts, it’s wrong. You think the cartel bosses that escaped from Mexico’s prisons were not morally and ethically wrong on multiple levels? Just because there’s also some corruption in the gov? Or because the prisons aren’t great. That’s unrea…

japanese democracy has a lot of "clauses"

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#194

Post by tptacek »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #170
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hypotheticals about victims in poverty and $10 thefts are nonsense Hypotheticals, sure. I’m not familiar with his every crime. Just the big ones. > Did he hold a gun to their heads and make them hire him? And couldn't their Boards just fire him? It sounds like the answer to the above questions, for you, is yes. Fraud. Embezzlement. All okay, because the ultimate victims, the shareholders, either didn’t push back be…

> a possibly corrupt, possibly incompetent Board So there we are. The people in charge of controlling him, the people whose job it is to supervise him, didn't.

You can apply that logic towards a variety of other crimes: the principal who doesn't properly supervise the teacher who beats students, the police chief who doesn't properly supervise the officers who form their own drug running gang. There's usually someone else you can blame besides the people who commit the immediate crime; there's always someone if you find creative ways to blame the victims. Most people grow out of thinking this way, though.

It doesn't make you a monster if you just happen to admire a criminal. That's human nature; people have admired all sorts of criminals, especially stylish ones who get away with things. There's a whole film genre about them.

But, like, if we're going to discuss them on a message board, we should probably be clear about the fact that Danny Ocean and his gang deserve to be --- in fact, really kind of need to be --- in prison.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#195

Post by eternalban »

hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

Asiatimes.com had a 4 part series on Ghosn. BusinessInsider as well iirc did a piece on him. Both are damning of Nissan and Japanese legal system. A related story also not broadcast loudly is that of an American lawyer that also got a taste of Japanese jails.

Ghosn is very credible here, if unlike WSJ, you wish to consider the facts. "[I]t is quite possible" is not factual matter.

This story involves industrial policy and interests of at least two major powers: France and Japan. In that scale of matters, Ghosn is a little guy. Good for him for escaping what sounds like hell.

https://asiatimes.com/2022/04/ghosn-shares-damning-new-docum...

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/04/business/michael-taylor-c...

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#196

Post by dang »

eternalban wrote: post #195
hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

Asiatimes.com had a 4 part series on Ghosn. BusinessInsider as well iirc did a piece on him. Both are damning of Nissan and Japanese legal system. A related story also not broadcast loudly is that of an American lawyer that also got a taste of Japanese jails. Ghosn is very credible here, if unlike WSJ, you wish to consider the facts. "[I]t is quite possible" is not factual matter. This story involves industrial polic…

Sorry for offtopicness - could you please email me at hn@ycombinator.com?

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#197

Post by CamperBob2 »

prvit wrote: post #191
CamperBob2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that private charter flights should get the whole TSA treatment. They certainly shouldn't. I'm just saying, when you run into some people who claim to be classical musicians but who don't look or behave anything like any musicians you've ever heard of, who are travelling on an unusual schedule with unusual luggage, who ask a lot of oddly-specific questions about security, who seem overly concerned with…

> it's worth at least a quick ping to airport security. “airport security” generally doesn’t show up for free, it’s a paid service.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Seems weird to discourage people from flagging suspicious activity. "See something, say something" doesn't mean you have to go full Stasi, just keep your eyes open and use some common sense.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#198

Post by throwaway_4ever »

speedgoose wrote: post #176
hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

A professional video of the Versaille Ghosn's birthday payed by Renault-Nissan party was interestingly published on youtube. The video is now private ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYhWZ0IYFSg ) but for some reasons I have a backup of the video. This link is a fair re-upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Fz9ThQvH4

This is hilarious. All the money in the word and rich peoples’ best parties are worse than practically every 20 year old’s in their parents suburban house.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#199

Post by eternalban »

dang wrote: post #196
eternalban wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asiatimes.com had a 4 part series on Ghosn. BusinessInsider as well iirc did a piece on him. Both are damning of Nissan and Japanese legal system. A related story also not broadcast loudly is that of an American lawyer that also got a taste of Japanese jails. Ghosn is very credible here, if unlike WSJ, you wish to consider the facts. "[I]t is quite possible" is not factual matter. This story involves industrial polic…

Sorry for offtopicness - could you please email me at hn@ycombinator.com?

Rather not associate pii with my hn account. Anything urgent?
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