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How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

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Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#91
post #83
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demons are gone because they weren't actually Gaiman's; they were DC IP. The show is going out of its way to cut ties with the rest of DC IP; there are things (like Johanna Constantine) done I think solely for the purpose of disentangling Morpheus from the DCU. Later Also, can we as adults with the books in far in the rear-view mirror (I mean, for those of us who'd say that) all not agree that the demon "contest"…

I think the anti-life bit was about entropy, but avoided the word for some reason. Could be for simplicity, poetic reasons, who could say.

> I think the anti-life bit was about entropy, but avoided the word for some reason

But it wasn't, it was about the anti-life equation, a reference to DC's Darkseid.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#92
post #61
post #47

The issue with this season is that while the comics are beloved, the first book is quite weak; Gaiman was still finding his voice, still experimenting with what the books were going to be, and constrained by editorial requirements from DC. The first several issues are full of cringey tie-ins to other DC IP, and the horror elements are forced (The Sandman is not a horror comic series). If you're not a Sandman stan, my…

I remember having the same impression 20 years ago. My housemate had the whole series of books, and would rave about how brilliant they are. After reading the first book, it was such a "meh" experience I didn't bother reading any others. Some occult guy traps the dream guy in a glass pot, dream guy escapes and wanders around getting his stuff back, also, his sister is a hot goth chick who happens to be the grim reape…

Yeah, I actually read the fourth (Season of Mists) first, and that hooked me. Dunno what would have happened if I'd actually read them in order.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#93
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least Alan Moore had the courage to tell Hollywood where to go. Except he didn’t, he sold the rights to a lot of his stuff, saying it was “money for old rope”.

He sold the rights early in his career, in the 80s, before the shitshow adaptations started coming out. Once he realized the travesty they had made of his life's work, he vowed never to work with Hollywood ever again and even stopped accepting royalties, telling the studios to pass them on to the artists that had worked on the original comics instead.

Yeah, with the result that the only decent adaptation (V for Vendetta) doesn't have his name anywhere on it.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#95

> Sources say Goyer was also adamant that “The Sandman” not be “dumbed-down” and that it be “kept weird,” and any attempts to make it “formulaic” were rejected by Goyer and Gaiman. That's funny since I found it formulaic to the extreme, which is a shame. Being a fan of the comics, I was saddened by the potential that was squandered in this adaptation. Regardless of what Gaiman says, I can't see this series as anythin…

You are right

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#96
post #61
post #47

The issue with this season is that while the comics are beloved, the first book is quite weak; Gaiman was still finding his voice, still experimenting with what the books were going to be, and constrained by editorial requirements from DC. The first several issues are full of cringey tie-ins to other DC IP, and the horror elements are forced (The Sandman is not a horror comic series). If you're not a Sandman stan, my…

I remember having the same impression 20 years ago. My housemate had the whole series of books, and would rave about how brilliant they are. After reading the first book, it was such a "meh" experience I didn't bother reading any others. Some occult guy traps the dream guy in a glass pot, dream guy escapes and wanders around getting his stuff back, also, his sister is a hot goth chick who happens to be the grim reape…

i always keep telling my friends that you need to read the book at least three times to really "get it".

I had the first book at home borrowed from a friend, read it once and thought "hm..". Then reread just like that and thought "hey, this is actually good". Then a third time and thought this was actually genius. Then decided to buy the whole serie.

It took me that long to understand the depth of the text, all the references ( either grabbed from other stories, or from real history), and sometimes realizing all the bits of the story.

And the best part to me: this is exactly reflecting the structure of a dream. It's all a bit weird and blurry, then its deep meaning only appears after careful examination.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#97

From what I bore to watch, it's a quite faithful adaptation - even if somewhat simplified. As someone who only read a bunch of those 80s/90s "transgressive" comic books in the late 2000s-early 2010s, thanks to the wonders of the Web (and never saw any sign of anyone else having heard of these particular works in my godforsaken corner of the world, though Gaiman is somewhat known for his collabs with Pratchett), I cou…

Sandman compilations are available in all of your favorite physical and online used book store outlets.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#98
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not enough Danes? He’s not doing demography, he’s telling a story. Should Nick Cave be playing more ragtime? Where are the Italian neorealist films of Guillermo del Toro? Complaining about Neil Gaiman over representing gay goths is like complaining about Kenny Rogers over representing gamblers.

You've missed the point and constructed a straw man. The point I made was any minority representation on television is good. Art should reflect life. Unless it is a cultural work, which The Sandman is not , vastly over-representing a minority, and one that is already recognized as over-represented in the industry, is obsessive and indulgent. If it was essential to the story, that is one thing, but almost none of it h…

Do you also get uncomfortable when there are more cops in shows that there are on average in society?

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#99
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comic was transformative and iconoclastic. It made you think but also forged new ground in graphic storytelling (and let's not forget that the artists that worked on it were at least as important if not more so than Gaiman). There is none of that in this adaptation. It plays it safe on every possible level. One can easily imagine the corporate bean counters slapping Gaiman on the back, a firm nod of approval.

Wonder if it has anything to do with reading the comic in your 20s and watching the adaptation in your 40s.

I have yet to see the adaptation, but just finished reading the books a few months ago (in my 40s), and while I liked them they did not (to me) live up to the hype.

I can totally see that they would have stood out more as something new in the 80's. Going back and reading some of my favourite comics from the 80's is bittersweet - seminal stories like the X-Men Dark Phoenix saga or Days of Future Past are marred by extremely annoying and intrusive exposition (I like exposition in books, and when well done it's great in comics too, but 1980's Marvel and DC exposition was so in your face most of the time), and Sandman work much better today than they do (other examples that stands out in retrospect in that way is Watchmen and Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run).

But unlike, e.g. Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run which still stands out to me as outstanding by modern standards too, while I can see many things that'd make it stand out in the 1980's, and while it's still quirky, it didn't quite reach that level to me (admittedly, it's an extremely high bar, so to reiterate: I did like Sandman).

I can absolutely see myself having a very different view of it if I read it back then, though. Put another way: If I came to X-Men's Dark Phoenix or Days of Future Past story lines today because someone raved about it, and I wasn't used to the comics of the era, I'd have a very hard time seeing past the veneer of heavy-handed story-telling, but I remember them, and so I find it a lot easier to see through how dated they are, even though their execution is worse by modern standards.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#100

From what I bore to watch, it's a quite faithful adaptation - even if somewhat simplified. As someone who only read a bunch of those 80s/90s "transgressive" comic books in the late 2000s-early 2010s, thanks to the wonders of the Web (and never saw any sign of anyone else having heard of these particular works in my godforsaken corner of the world, though Gaiman is somewhat known for his collabs with Pratchett), I cou…

Sandman compilations are available in all of your favorite physical and online used book store outlets.

Look around and see where paying for your culture gets you.

EDIT: If you do want to support badass comics, you could subscribe to the Patreon of Abaddon (author of https://killsixbilliondemons.com/).

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