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How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

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Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#71

Post by yazboo »

Maursault wrote: post #69

Since no one mentioned, I was a bit confused. I had heard of the Sandman, had some awareness that it was an oldish popular and well-regarded comic leading to a popular graphic novel. I must have seen imagery of Sandman somewhere. But then I watched the series I was utterly confused by the goth imagery and a lot of other elements. A little research revealed I was certainly confused. The Sandman I had in mind was the o…

Not enough Danes? He’s not doing demography, he’s telling a story. Should Nick Cave be playing more ragtime? Where are the Italian neorealist films of Guillermo del Toro? Complaining about Neil Gaiman over representing gay goths is like complaining about Kenny Rogers over representing gamblers.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#72

Post by jjkaczor »

Supermancho wrote: post #24
cmm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, let's see: bog-standard cgi, overbearing music that sounds like music in any other big recent(ish) "fantasy" production, stilted dialogue laced with awkward exposition, nobody among the cast seems to know how to fucking act (except the guy playing John Dee, he's excellent though also exactly the same as everywhere else, so he just steals every scene he's in), that stupid raven, shall I go on. still watchable, w…

The raven feels like a studio note. Hey, let's get a grating voice^ to do narration and exposition cleanup, and it can completely counteract the dark moody theme for people who don't like that! ^ No offense to the great Patton Oswald, but the audio is boosted to make the choice seem even worse. He's supposed to be a voice for the Sandman, but instead he's a bullhorn.

I have never read the comic/graphic novel, so - was coming into this blind.

It was going well, until Mathew opened his mouth and spoke - and all I could think of was... "Happy!"... Another graphic novel adaptation where Patton Oswald did voice acting... But that character worked with his voice, this... does not.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#73

Post by eyelidlessness »

jasonladuke0311 wrote: post #7
metroholografix wrote: post #3

> Sources say Goyer was also adamant that “The Sandman” not be “dumbed-down” and that it be “kept weird,” and any attempts to make it “formulaic” were rejected by Goyer and Gaiman. That's funny since I found it formulaic to the extreme, which is a shame. Being a fan of the comics, I was saddened by the potential that was squandered in this adaptation. Regardless of what Gaiman says, I can't see this series as anythin…

24 hour diner followed a bunch of nobodies and a side character for 40 minutes. That is not in any formula that conventional shows would follow.

It’s a comedy trope. Seinfeld is probably most famous for the formula with back-references throughout the series. Arrested Development dabbled in it, and Community took it to the extreme of whole story arcs. Brooklyn 99 and New Girl revel in it. A less comedy-specific example, Buffy, created a role for the throw away character (Spike) because he was so well received, then went on to do several more episodes along a similar theme (Zeppo, the one about Jonathan being a superhero, the musical, come to mind).

Movies are less susceptible to being described as formulaic, but an iconic movie, The Big Lebowski, could reasonably be summarized this way (albeit the series is serialized into one piece). Coffee and Cigarettes doesn’t satisfy the “nobodies” in the literal sense, but it’s almost entirely this formula.

I’m just citing examples I can think of, I haven’t watched most of what people have watched. And I don’t mean in any way to dismiss the actual work, or the concept, or your finding novelty in it. It’s a really cool device for storytelling, but it’s definitely not a unique device.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#74

Post by Maursault »

yazboo wrote: post #71
Maursault wrote: post #69

Since no one mentioned, I was a bit confused. I had heard of the Sandman, had some awareness that it was an oldish popular and well-regarded comic leading to a popular graphic novel. I must have seen imagery of Sandman somewhere. But then I watched the series I was utterly confused by the goth imagery and a lot of other elements. A little research revealed I was certainly confused. The Sandman I had in mind was the o…

Not enough Danes? He’s not doing demography, he’s telling a story. Should Nick Cave be playing more ragtime? Where are the Italian neorealist films of Guillermo del Toro? Complaining about Neil Gaiman over representing gay goths is like complaining about Kenny Rogers over representing gamblers.

You've missed the point and constructed a straw man.

The point I made was any minority representation on television is good. Art should reflect life. Unless it is a cultural work, which The Sandman is not, vastly over-representing a minority, and one that is already recognized as over-represented in the industry, is obsessive and indulgent. If it was essential to the story, that is one thing, but almost none of it had anything to do with the story or its advancement. It is gauche wallpaper. It is gratuitous. The homosexuality of the characters doesn't matter. It could be remade entirely with only straight characters, and it would still be sexually gratuitous and indulgent.

Dreams are inherently sexual, but this fact is entirely lost on Gaiman.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#75

Post by taeric »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #73
jasonladuke0311 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

24 hour diner followed a bunch of nobodies and a side character for 40 minutes. That is not in any formula that conventional shows would follow.

It’s a comedy trope. Seinfeld is probably most famous for the formula with back-references throughout the series. Arrested Development dabbled in it, and Community took it to the extreme of whole story arcs. Brooklyn 99 and New Girl revel in it. A less comedy-specific example, Buffy, created a role for the throw away character (Spike) because he was so well received, then went on to do several more episodes along a s…

I'm not sure I follow. Most of the examples you used still centered on main characters for the series. They were often disjoint story lines.

None of which is to say that this is unique. It just isn't what I would call formulaic.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#76

Post by Maursault »

braingenious wrote: post #70
Maursault wrote: post #69

Since no one mentioned, I was a bit confused. I had heard of the Sandman, had some awareness that it was an oldish popular and well-regarded comic leading to a popular graphic novel. I must have seen imagery of Sandman somewhere. But then I watched the series I was utterly confused by the goth imagery and a lot of other elements. A little research revealed I was certainly confused. The Sandman I had in mind was the o…

> But Gaiman turned everything goth, maybe a little steampunk Have you read the comic? It’s very, very goth and steampunk. As for “there are only gay blank women” point… what? There are like three black women in the show for more than an episode or two that I can think of. The main character is a god played by a white guy, the main antagonist is a non-human nightmare played by a white guy, the secondary antagonist (r…

No post body was provided.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#77

Post by braingenious »

Maursault wrote: post #76
braingenious wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But Gaiman turned everything goth, maybe a little steampunk Have you read the comic? It’s very, very goth and steampunk. As for “there are only gay blank women” point… what? There are like three black women in the show for more than an episode or two that I can think of. The main character is a god played by a white guy, the main antagonist is a non-human nightmare played by a white guy, the secondary antagonist (r…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: How (and Why) Neil Gaiman Finally Adapted ‘The Sandman’ for TV

#80

Post by taeric »

tptacek wrote: post #68
taeric wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've enjoyed both. Curious what makes the audio not work for you.

I thought it was simultaneously kind of over- and under- acted. But I've only gotten through Preludes and Doll's House.

Certainly fair. I'm guessing I like it more just for how surprised I was that it was a good audiobook.
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