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Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

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Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#171

Post by throwawaylinux »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #30

Since: 1) He had essentially zero chance of being acquitted, and 2) He was the victim of Nissan executives who didn't like having a gaijin be their boss: In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping. Financial crimes deserve a financial penalty. If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then? Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burgl…

1) Based on what? The fact that evidence against him was overwhelming(?), or this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

"Japan

The conviction rate is 99.3%. By only stating this high conviction rate it is often misunderstood as too high—however, this high conviction rate drops significantly when accounting for the fact that Japanese prosecutors drop roughly half the cases they are given. If measured in the same way, the United States' conviction rate would be 99.8%."

And he has since had to settle a massive fraud charge from the US SEC and is the subject of an arrest warrant from France now too. Bit hard to just dismiss the whole thing as being due to racist authoritarian Japan.

2) What was he a victim of? There are allegations and counter allegations, why should he have the presumption of innocence but not these "Nissan executives"?

> In his shoes, I would feel morally justified in escaping.

I'm guessing most CEO types would feel moral in personally deciding the punishment for their crimes is unfair and therefore they are justified in committing more crimes to get away with their earlier crimes...

> If you disagree with that, suppose Britney Griner somehow escaped from Russian "justice"? How would you feel then?

An emotionally charged question because of the situation now, but there are many who get "unfair" sentences for drugs all over the world including people jailed in Russia for similar crimes, people executed in South East Asia and the Middle East for drugs, and people locked away in the US for years on non violent crimes based on legislation and prosecutions orchestrated by the likes of President Biden and Vice President Harris.

Not that you can't be against all of those things, but it's a pretty huge crutch that seems to be trying to equate Japan's justice system with Russia's, and harsh penalties for personal drug use with the often very lenient punishments for fraud and embezzlement. "If you aren't with Ghosn then you're with Putin" is a bridge too far.

> Edit. Everyone talking about hypothetical burglaries and $10 thefts from poor people: please explain what, exactly, Ghosn was accused of stealing, and from whom?

Some millions of dollars. From company shareholders.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#173

Post by SenHeng »

hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

It’s also largely fuelled by the negative experiences many foreigners, resident or tourist, have had with the Japanese police.

O: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/j4ccy4/how_being...

1: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/tcxseo/arrested_...

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#174

Post by EdwardDiego »

tokinonagare wrote: post #79
EdwardDiego wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah my brother had a child with his Japanese wife last year, and she became very unwell mentally post-partum, but won't seek treatment. He's desperately unhappy, but he has to stay in the marriage, as he has no chance in hell of seeing his son if he leaves, foreign spouses never win a custody dispute in Japanese courts, and Japan does not do shared custody.

This is indeed a big issue with international marriages. The solution I thought of (because I was living in Japan for few years, so may someday get stuck in a similar situation) would be to steal the kid before she does, like using holidays abroad, or even just like taking a fly with the kid after school or something. Basically boils down to firing first. Risky if the spouse find it, and of course that mean leaving a…

That's the problem, he's not that kind of guy. And no-one really thinks about these things, e.g., "what if my partner develops post-partum psychosis in a jurisdiction hostile to people not from that jurisdiction" when falling in love.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#175

Post by chrischen »

yomkippur wrote: post #91
chrischen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not convicted yet, and apparently he does want to be tried just in France and not in Japan. A lot of the accusations are for standard rich people crimes which is some amount of tax avoidance. You can basically pick and choose who you want to target because as panama papers shows pretty much all rich people are dodging taxes to some degree.

Except he wasn't evading taxes, he was paying himself extra money that he deemed was justified but was not approved or made aware to the company. I don't know why people are defending Ghosn, I suspect with all that money, he was able to hire an internet marketing company to flood the comment section like they did on Reddit. Still doesn't change the fact that Interpol has a red notice for Ghosn.

Seems more like a civil thing. He was the CEO. Seemed like they used all these things as reasons to oust him. Doesn’t change the fact that trial hasn’t happened yet.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#176

Post by speedgoose »

hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

A professional video of the Versaille Ghosn's birthday payed by Renault-Nissan party was interestingly published on youtube.

The video is now private (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYhWZ0IYFSg) but for some reasons I have a backup of the video. This link is a fair re-upload: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Fz9ThQvH4

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#177

Post by prvit »

Scoundreller wrote: post #158
prvit wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fire the criminally clueless and replace their setup with the security that’s setup for every other airport terminal. What will that achieve? How many terror attacks have there been on board private planes? > And if you need a background check for a HAM radio license, it makes sense to have a background check for pilot licenses. An useful background check would be something more akin to a security clearance, not li…

1. How many successful terror attacks have happened with any plane currently flying? Zero. How many terror attacks have I committed? Zero. Why do we still check those? Whatever checking private planes would achieve. Maybe that's nothing, but annoying safety/security measures need to be all or nothing. No exemptions. 2. You didn't understand re: HAM radio, you have to report your felonies for a HAM radio license and t…

> Why do we still check those? Whatever checking private planes would achieve.

Regular passenger flights often contain hundreds of random people, private jets don’t. It’s downright idiotic to equate these.

> 2. You didn't understand re: HAM radio, you have to report your felonies for a HAM radio license and that gets reviewed, in USA anyway

I did understand.

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#178

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #170
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hypotheticals about victims in poverty and $10 thefts are nonsense Hypotheticals, sure. I’m not familiar with his every crime. Just the big ones. > Did he hold a gun to their heads and make them hire him? And couldn't their Boards just fire him? It sounds like the answer to the above questions, for you, is yes. Fraud. Embezzlement. All okay, because the ultimate victims, the shareholders, either didn’t push back be…

> a possibly corrupt, possibly incompetent Board So there we are. The people in charge of controlling him, the people whose job it is to supervise him, didn't.

> people in charge of controlling him, the people whose job it is to supervise him, didn't

Sure. I made an analogy to Enron elsewhere.

But their incompetence, potentially collusion, doesn’t excuse Ghosn. And the path to holding them responsible is through him. The flip side of this, also unexplored, is that people with skeletons in their closets don't tend to hide them alone. Who else is complicit? Who among them was blackmailed, and which decisions were unduly influenced by that?

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#179

Post by [deleted] »

mrandish wrote: post #49
exhilaration wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side, according to Ghosn, wasn't the Japanese legal system -- it was other Nissan executives that weaponized the Japanese legal system against a foreigner. Still, I agree it's very much a case of infighting among the privileged.

I'd add that the Japanese political system was involved as well. It wasn't hard for the Nissan power players to align political support since there was already national pride and home-team loyalty at stake. The deck was definitely heavily stacked against Ghosn.

[deleted]

Re: Carlos Ghosn’s Brazen Escape from Japan

#180

Post by MomoXenosaga »

SenHeng wrote: post #173
hannyaharamita wrote: post #160

A popular narrative is that the choice is between Ghosn being guilty or a victim of a Nissan management coup d'etat. This is a false dichotomy, it is also quite possible that illicit activity by Ghosn provided convenient ammunition to people with incentive to have him removed. People pushing the binary narrative focus on how the Japanese prosecution seems over the top for what is essentially a financial reporting law…

It’s also largely fuelled by the negative experiences many foreigners, resident or tourist, have had with the Japanese police. O: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/j4ccy4/how_being... 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/tcxseo/arrested_...

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