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Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

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Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

#131

Post by DanBC »

jobeyonekenobi wrote: post #50

I posted this in the other thread about his hours: Being a manager and accutely aware of legal ramifications of hours worked (boring I know), does anyone have any insight into whether there is something in the US akin to the European Worktime Directive? Over here (UK, but the E.U as a whole) the average working week is 40 hours by law, and the worker must opt in to be eligble to work upto a maximum of 70 hours per we…

Replying to this quite late:

(http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHour...)

Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

#132

Post by exDM69 »

billpatrianakos wrote: post #42

This is not something to be idolized. Maybe it works for Jack, or maybe it's really exaggerated but there are going to be people reading this that are going to want to try it. I feel bad for those people. Your first instinct is to think that you can't succeed without killing yourself. Then you figure out that if you're killing yourself youve forgotten why you started to begin with.

His weekly schedule looks awful. I would never want to live a life like this. Hope his example does not turn into something that is expected from people.

I work a job as a software engineer and do computer science engineering studies at the same time. Although I don't do nearly the hours Mr. Dorsey does, I'm still physically and mentally exhausted. And like Mr. Dorsey, I love what I do, but it's still very hard on me.

Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

#133

Post by roel_v »

rsynnott wrote: post #127
danbmil99 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many startups come from NZ? The point here isn't "employment law", it's the fact that in the USA (generally, in the private sector) employment is considered a contract, not an entitlement. If people at Square don't like the environment, they are free to find another job. Similarly, if Dorsey doesn't like an employee's output for any reason, or "the cut of his jib" for that matter, he pays him up to the day and fi…

> How many startups come from NZ? Quite a few startups come from the UK, Ireland and Germany; in all three countries the alleged behavior by Square would be highly illegal.

Like who? How much revenue do they make, combined, compared to the combined revenue of US companies? Let's not kid ourselves here - I'm European, there are many things I like about the place I live, but the tech company scene is laughable here. It's hard to find anyone who is even capable of thinking beyond the 'I set up Active Directory network and fix pc's' or 'I make websites for the local pizza place' level.

(yes there are some counter examples, I know, but I'm talking about magnitudes, not frolicking in the margin)

Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

#134

Post by stephen_g »

ghshephard wrote: post #113
SCdF wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US employment law is nuts, here in NZ you'd have an amazingly hard time firing people who don't work the 80hr weeks you wish they did.

I'm not sure what you mean about "US employment law is nuts". If you are an hourly employee, you get paid so many dollars/hours, for the number of hours you work, and after you work so many hours a day, you get paid overtime. If you are exempt (Salaried) - you basically work when your manager tells you to. I've been at (several) companies where we had 3-4 month death marches with _everyone_ working late and on weeken…

That is nuts... Here in Australia, my salary is paid based on a 40 hour working week, minus 4 weeks holiday and sick leave. This is pretty standard for a full time job.

I can choose to work over that amount, and time worked over those 40 hours is time-in-lieu, which I can take off pretty much whenever I want (although I have to get approval if I want to take more than one day off at a time - but if it's just a day, or half a day then I just shoot them an email that morning)... My company are a bit more flexible on taking that time off than a lot of places, but apart from that, the conditions are similar to a lot of other places...

Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

#135

Post by _delirium »

danbmil99 wrote: post #118
SCdF wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US employment law is nuts, here in NZ you'd have an amazingly hard time firing people who don't work the 80hr weeks you wish they did.

How many startups come from NZ? The point here isn't "employment law", it's the fact that in the USA (generally, in the private sector) employment is considered a contract, not an entitlement. If people at Square don't like the environment, they are free to find another job. Similarly, if Dorsey doesn't like an employee's output for any reason, or "the cut of his jib" for that matter, he pays him up to the day and fi…

I'm not sure there's a very solid correlation on that. It's true that the U.S. has a lot of startups, and also at-will employment, but actual experimental data is pretty weak, and the U.S. has been a technological leader through various routes for decades, not all of them startup-ish. For example, the old-line engineering firms (AT&T, Boeing, Lockheed, IBM, etc.) drove technical innovation for decades, and had much more "Europe-like" working conditions, where working more than 40 hours/wk was uncommon, employees were rarely fired except for gross incompetence, etc.

If anything, the 80-hour/wk and ready firing of employees thing was traditionally seen as a more "mom-and-pop business" type culture, associated with lower-status industries like the family-owned restaurant, not with technology.

Re: Jack Dorsey does 8 hours at Twitter, 8 hours at Square daily

#139

Post by rmc »

jobeyonekenobi wrote: post #50

I posted this in the other thread about his hours: Being a manager and accutely aware of legal ramifications of hours worked (boring I know), does anyone have any insight into whether there is something in the US akin to the European Worktime Directive? Over here (UK, but the E.U as a whole) the average working week is 40 hours by law, and the worker must opt in to be eligble to work upto a maximum of 70 hours per we…

Over here (UK, but the E.U as a whole) the average working week is 40 hours by law, and the worker must opt in to be eligble to work upto a maximum of 70 hours per week

I believe the EU Working Time Directive mandates 48hr maximum working week. The UK was given an excemption to allow employees to 'opt out' of the law. Other EU countries do not have a legal opt out. Some countries (e.g. France) have a lower 'maximum hours per week'.

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