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How to stop being “terminally online”

nights.bearblog.dev

211–220 of 238 posts

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do in fact get to do that. The parts that were my opinions ("I think", "I see", etc) were clearly cited to me. But a fair bit of what I wrote was pointers to things people can look up. If there's something apparently factual that you're having trouble looking up, let me know and I'm glad to give you a pointer. Because I'm happy to give citations when people ask for them. The reason I put a "citation needed" in was…

Growing up I do not remember political associations to be so strong in folks. Twenty years ago, when 9/11 hit, we put aside our differences in a remarkable display of national unity. (Granted, not all good came out of this; a number of racial groups saw a ton of negative attention at the time. But even with that, the climate felt like one of unity, at least for me.) Comedians like Trey Parker/Matt Stone, Dave Chapell…

> Growing up I do not remember political associations to be so strong in folks.

Depends on when you grew up, but assuming the 1985 is your birth year, then political polarization has been asymmetrically increasing since well before you were born. Take a look at the DW-NOMINATE data for the US House: https://xkcd.com/1127/large/

This asymmetric polarization mirrors doctrinal polarization among white US evangelicals, who have, for example, gone from having a plurality of views on abortion to treating it as an absolute doctrinal litmus test: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-bib...

I can believe that for you personally 9/11 felt unifying, but that wasn't the case for a lot of people. Not just including the Sikhs and Muslims lynched, of course, or all the people who saw that and got nervous. But also the notable percentage of Americans opposed to the Iraq war, which Bush began beating the drums for just months after 9/11.

I also believe that you perceived American culture as more unified then. But based on what? Twitter didn't launch until 2006, and didn't really take off until 2010. If a bunch of people were upset about something, how would you have known? Especially if they were in some group that didn't get a lot of mass media attention, you wouldn't have. It's not that edgy comedians were any less awful then. It's that the people they were being shitty about generally didn't get the chance to express their feelings on it. I think the problem you're seeing is not differing views, but people with those different views finally getting their say.

> political climate has been so stifling since at least McCarthyism

Oh? Why don't you break that down for me with some examples. Go through the major harms of the Red Scare era and then some examples of people similarly harmed today. I think that's wrong, but I'm happy to learn something.

> was fucking Wikipedia is a crass, petulant move, and wholly inappropriate for something as counterfactual

I don't think you quite understand what counterfactual means, but I think take your point. Your notion seems to be that this is a fact-free zone, and that it's shockingly rude to ask if their claims have any basis in fact. I obviously think that's ridiculous. If you want to go entirely unchallenged, maybe get a talk radio show or something. But as long as I've been here, asking for evidence has been a popular activity.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#212

Health and online activity are inextricably linked at this point. Mental health. Cardiovascular health. Health of interpersonal relationships. Work life balance. I sincerely think we are at an equivalent situation as the tobacco industry in the 1970s. The decisions we make now will affect the lives of generations to come. Cal Newport's site has a Ledger of Harms [1] at the Center for Humane Technology, and I wrote wh…

> Cal Newport's site has a Ledger of Harms [1] at the Center for Humane Technology Sorry, I'm not following. Could you elaborate on the connection between Cal Newport and the site you linked to?

I may be mistaken but Center for Humane Technology which compiled the "Ledger of harms" is an umbrella for critical thought on digital tech whose members include folk like Roger McNamee, Cal Newport, Jonathan Haidt, Max Stossel, Tristan Harris and others. Actually it would be fairer to call it Harris' site (since he is the "president" of it)

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#213
post #202

> find a hobby // i don't mean this derisively, i promise. if you use social media to kill time, try putting that time into something else - maybe something you've always wanted to do. always wanted to cook? look up a recipe and start. I believe the author (and many other people giving this advice) are naive to the difference between “free time with mental energy to burn” — where a hobby is definitely the right answe…

I find when I’m really exhausted, I stay up late looking at my phone and it feeds the cycle. If I read a book in bed I get relaxed, fall asleep, and feel rested. Looking at the phone could be the same as TV 50 years ago for some people but I’ve never fallen asleep looking at my phone and I often fall asleep watching TV.

I’ve come to the conclusion the best thing to do when I’m tired is get off the phone and go to sleep. Sometimes I don’t realize how tired I am until I realize I’m spending more and more time on the phone. A sleep tracker was really helpful for identifying this but I don’t have one anymore.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up I do not remember political associations to be so strong in folks. Twenty years ago, when 9/11 hit, we put aside our differences in a remarkable display of national unity. (Granted, not all good came out of this; a number of racial groups saw a ton of negative attention at the time. But even with that, the climate felt like one of unity, at least for me.) Comedians like Trey Parker/Matt Stone, Dave Chapell…

> Growing up I do not remember political associations to be so strong in folks. Depends on when you grew up, but assuming the 1985 is your birth year, then political polarization has been asymmetrically increasing since well before you were born. Take a look at the DW-NOMINATE data for the US House: https://xkcd.com/1127/large/ This asymmetric polarization mirrors doctrinal polarization among white US evangelicals, w…

No, I am not saying this is a fact-free zone. What I am saying is that it is a zone for opinions, which may or may not be true (counterfactual may not be the best word choice here, but it is close enough), and is not to be held to the same standard as wikipedia, whose copy you are using in what I read as a flippant remark.

I don't have data for you, just my perceptions and opinions. There are too many structural problems with the way political data is collected in this country (starting with the wording on questions in political surveys, and ending far beyond redistricting shenanigans). Given how deceptive and manipulative most election campaigns are, and how third parties are disproportionately disadvantaged financially, I don't think that looking at the proportion of left/right seats in congress is a good proxy for political polarization.

What I do see as a proxy is the behavior of those around me, and then trying to extrapolate that to reflect a larger population. I live in one of many pockets of conservativism in a very liberal state, and I am judging on the tone and tenor of political conversations and how freely friendly, amicable political debate flows among social groups in a fairly politically diverse area. Again, this is highly subjective for many different reasons, and I can say that I used to travel around a lot and have rubbed shoulders with many different social groups and castes in this society, and so I feel that I am at least somewhat qualified to extrapolate here.

And that observation is that political discussion is getting narrower, more pointed, and more focused on nationally-popular memes/issues. 12 years ago I sat in a meeting of one of the local tea-party chapters, and it was mostly older folks rabblerousing over local stuff. There wasn't much in the way of conspiracy theories, there wasn't a whole bunch of liberal shit-talking, just a bunch of people bitching about this-or-that with the local schooldistrict. When they happened to pick on my own high school, I knew that much of what they were saying was factually false, and I was able to state to the crowd why, and that was that. (There was some grumbling but the conversation turned elsewhere.) There were both left- and right-leaning folks in my friend group, and there was a quiet understanding to not get into political debates, and people weren't on-edge about it so if something was said, it didn't blow up.

We didn't have too many local crazies flying massive American flags on their trucks, with their cheap shots at trolling regular folks -- but now we do; there are places I can go where I can see them on a regular and predictable basis.

Nowadays I stay out of political shit, people are way too toxic, obsessive, and focusing on the same dozen or so things that everyone else is talking about. What would this tea party meeting have looked like today?

I have a different social group now; one that I like far more but we are very left-leaning, and increasingly (and troublingly) so. There is a much higher proportion of "polsplaining" (like mansplaining, but politicos talking down to people that offend them), many more suggestions that people self-evaluate (and insinuations that they are bad for towing a particular line), and hot political buzzwords are on people's tongues (and used as scapegoats) far more often than I can recall. I find myself hesitating to argue some points as I don't really want to die on any of these hills.

When the Roe v Wade decision dropped I broke my rule and attended a local rally, as I was pissed (much like everyone else). But at that rally someone got up on the podium and actively denounced people that not only just opposed abortion or womens health issues, but also anyone that opposed Black Lives Matter, anyone that opposed reparations, anyone that opposed ACAB; they kept calling for a unified front to address all of these issues as one.

I don't recall overhearing anyone complaining about feeling unable to speak up, but in the last year or two it has occurred multiple times at my usual haunts.

But once again this is all subjective experience of one person, albeit someone who tries to be at least somewhat perceptive and thoughtful about it. I have an axe to grind, so I am very quick to denounce certain cohorts -- hence my original comment here -- but again this is all subjective and nowhere have I explicitly asserted anything as fact. If you take the omission of certain wording as an attempt at factuality, you should consider that certain kinds of language training encourage writing in a way that minimizes some phrasing as a matter of style, and that it is very common in many places where people write professionally.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, okay, and they claimed it's not an obscure reference, but you have to have played a certain level in a certain game AND been on a certain forum to know what it means? Maybe obscure doesn't mean what I think it means.

"Break the ice" was coined by Shakespeare, but the vast majority of people who use the phrase probably didn't read that play. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have used the "press F" meme without knowing the original context too.

My regular friend group who uses that phrase have all read the play, some even who have performed it. I'm sure I'm not alone, but then again, I have the intuition to find people with similar life experiences and religion.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#216
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they're not the most immature one in this situation.

What do you expect from a user who claims to be "fighting for my life in the comments almost daily" on HN? el-oh-el.

HN is the last bastion of free speech and intelligent conversation. Sorry to hear if you dislike people who want to defend that right adamantly, but myself and most other HNers who embrace the free speech, conservative model would politely, but firmly, show you the door.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar with my father but he's got a dumb phone and browses on his laptop. When we have conversations with family he seems to always tune out after a few minutes and goes on the computer. His whole world view has been flipped upside down by conspiracy and hoax content. We've talked to him about not mentioning that stuff while we're over but it seems to be affecting his happiness nonetheless.

Mine too. It seems like every old father has fallen into the right wing conspiracy cesspool that has warped their mind. An entire generation lost. I really wonder what makes them so susceptible to that content. Internet illiteracy? Old age? It's just who they are? In other words, they want the conspiracies to be true, they want a reason to hate Fauci, Greta Thunberg etc.? And even more, I wonder if it can be cured. I…

Maybe a life of manual labor, always feeling like you can't get ahead in life. Then a group of people tell you it's because of some simple reason that you need to get angry about. Obviously it's something that you can't actually do anything about. So it makes you feel worse and makes you feel like you're at least doing something when you consume the content and spread it to others.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it's not unusual: "I wish mum's phone was never invented"[0] [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44224319

It’s so sad, I wonder if we’ll ever learn the full impact on kids from their parents’ phone addictions. I recently took my daughter to a playground and watched in horror another young couple there. Their 5 year old was nearly crying for them to pay attention and play with her, but there were mom and dad: hunched over their phones, doing that zoned-out zombie stumble-walk that people do when they are addict-scrolling.…

A lot of educators have voiced concerns that kids in the last few years have displayed extreme regression in social skills. I don't think these two things aren't related.

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#219
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed partially. You have to question what "culture" are you missing on. I'm still on Facebook and let me tell you, you're not missing much in the culture department.

> I'm still on Facebook and let me tell you, you're not missing much in the culture department. guy above you might have deleted his fb account in the early 2000s. right now, the culture isn't at fb, it's at places like reddit and 4chan.

> right now, the culture isn't at fb, it's at places like reddit and 4chan

The fact that people in 2022 describe 4chan as having any kind of effect on our culture should send shivers down our collective spines.

/pol/ is 4chan, 4chan is /pol/

Re: How to stop being “terminally online”

#220
post #46

Who really cares - 100 years ago you might as well have moaned about people living through books. We have to live and learn 2nd hand because: * Learning some things 1st hand has a high chance of being fatal * We cannot afford to live all possible lives but we do have to be able to understand each other and each other's motives to be able to get along - this means we have to imagine what it's like to be someone else.…

Eh, none of the bookworms I know ever had drastic changes in their personality consistent with anxiety or depression, or somehow became angry and bitter after binge-reading a 6 book fantasy series. It just isn't a thing that happens. I also don't think the internet itself—we didn't see this problem with blogs/wikipedia/trashy chain emails from your uncle. It's the feeds. Because everything is tuned for engagement, if…

That might be a case of seeing it from the outside though. They are interacting with other people - the internet is only the conduit. It can be very negative to hang out with the wrong people whether it's physically or otherwise.

It's also possible that we're letting advertising algorithms push us around but one is not free from advertising in the unvirtual world either. There's a continual mental attack from every source that tells us we don't have "good enough" lives and must buy something or other to make them better.

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