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Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

nature.com

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Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#261

Post by josebrwn »

kirsebaer wrote: post #259

Participants were required to bring their own psilocybin mushrooms. Probably because it can be expensive and difficult for researchers to get obtain and administer pharma-grade psilocybin. The dose was 0.5g of dried Cubensis mushrooms. Usually a microdose is 0.1-0.2g. All the participants were healthy volunteers. There may be more noticable effects in people with depression or anxiety disorders, etc. Consider that an…

>The dose was 0.5g of dried Cubensis mushrooms. Usually a microdose is 0.1-0.2g.

Precisely. This experiment had nothing to do with microdosing. Half a gram is a light dose but it is definitely inebriating.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#262

Post by varispeed »

j_m_b wrote: post #122

I'm sort of surprised they didn't extract/synthesize psilocybin directly and administer that. Decades ago, I grew a few batches of P. Cubensis. Even amongst mushrooms from the same rice cake, the dosage wildly varies. You could have a "trip" from a tiny mushroom or eat a handful of duds.

It's interesting that when it comes to cannabis they often do the opposite - that is they give subjects synthetic THC rather than the whole spectrum extract. THC isolate is quite nasty - but the same amount of THC combined with CBD and other cannabinoids can work wonders.

I think there may be that if they isolated psilocybin, they could have missed other compounds that play a part in causing desired effects. Obviously this is a different substance than cannabinoids, but I think when it comes to plants it makes more sense to test it exactly how subjects use it rather than use synthetics.

edit: I hope I didn't cause offence to any mushroom - of course they are not plants, but I hope you get my point.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#263

Post by standardUser »

kirsebaer wrote: post #259

Participants were required to bring their own psilocybin mushrooms. Probably because it can be expensive and difficult for researchers to get obtain and administer pharma-grade psilocybin. The dose was 0.5g of dried Cubensis mushrooms. Usually a microdose is 0.1-0.2g. All the participants were healthy volunteers. There may be more noticable effects in people with depression or anxiety disorders, etc. Consider that an…

We need better terms for differentiating low doses and true microdosing. Half a gram is certainly a low dose, but I'd expect most people to feel at least some high.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#264

Post by superb-owl »

> The reported acute effects were significantly more intense for the active dose compared to the placebo, but only for participants who correctly identified their experimental condition

I find attempts to study psychedelics with placebo control kind of comical. The positive effects are not due to a chemical change, they are due to a direct subjective experience [1][2]. It's like trying to placebo control the effects of reading a good novel or seeing a sunset.

But I guess this does help to dispel the similarly comical idea that a completely non-psychoactive dose of psychedelics can be beneficial.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8033615/#:~:tex...

[2] https://superbowl.substack.com/i/65186479/the-psychedelic-ex...

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#265

Post by nibbleshifter »

Jolter wrote: post #252
erokar wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, does seems high.

If you think the dose is too high, yet they found no significant effect compared to placebo, what would you expect would happen at a _lower_ dose?

0.5 grams of p. cubensis is a noticeable dose. Its not a microdose by any means, and usually will result in some impairment.

Its about what I'd take if I wanted to enhance a visit to a museum or art gallery, or music production.

Its not what I'd take and try do a day of work.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#266

Post by mlindner »

superb-owl wrote: post #264

> The reported acute effects were significantly more intense for the active dose compared to the placebo, but only for participants who correctly identified their experimental condition I find attempts to study psychedelics with placebo control kind of comical. The positive effects are not due to a chemical change, they are due to a direct subjective experience [1][2]. It's like trying to placebo control the effects…

"Experience" is a thing represented by chemical markers in the brain however. It's all electrochemical in the end. And I have heard first hand stories directly from people who used to use the stuff that it absolutely changed their personalities, i.e. brain damage which is a chemical effect.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#267

Post by drekipus »

jnovek wrote: post #72
drekipus wrote: post #71

How does one even get contacts to consider this (in a safe manner)? One thought about this and I'd actually consider myself fairly in tune and at peace with my inner self already, so I'd be curious to see how it could help me deal with some of my ruts I get in from time to time. Alcohol definitely isn't helping

I know my posts on Hacker News are like a broken record, but have you considered talk therapy (if it’s available to you)? “Rut” and “alcohol” are two words that set off depression alarms. Medication and therapy — or if you’re opposed to medication, just therapy — help. I know from experience. Edit: Not to be down on psychedelics at all —- I’m optimistic about the role of psychedelics in future depression treatment. I…

Cheers, I appreciate that.

I have had therapy over the years, but one thing I was told was that it couldn't be depression because it's so infrequent. I'm more likely just getting sad at times.

Most of the time I'm pepper and optimistic, etc. I might just have a minor burn out from work or I start feeling like I'm not doing enough. Meditation has helped, along with going to the gym, but some times I burn out from that too like boredom (from doing the same thing over and over), and I don't know why

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#268

Post by 14 »

IlliOnato wrote: post #161
j_m_b wrote: post #122

I'm sort of surprised they didn't extract/synthesize psilocybin directly and administer that. Decades ago, I grew a few batches of P. Cubensis. Even amongst mushrooms from the same rice cake, the dosage wildly varies. You could have a "trip" from a tiny mushroom or eat a handful of duds.

It might be so that researchers investigate the common practice of "microdosing" and its effects, not necessarily (just) the effects of psilocybin low dosage. So they tried to closely emulate this practice, as it is done by users in real-life. But this of course introduces more uncertainty, as you pointed out, so to have any conclusive results a much larger sample group would be needed, I think. Also I agree with oth…

They just need a large batch of mushrooms and grind it to a powder and weighed out and placed in a pill capsule, much like what I saw back in high school being sold. No taste as it is in a pill capsule and the dose is pretty consistent.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#269

Post by yarg »

hackerlight wrote: post #63
yarg wrote: post #3

(It's strange that we're using the term microdose, even in scientific contexts - prefixes have meanings - it should be called a decidose.) Anecdotally, I've had a degree of short term success treating my depression with smallish doses of mushrooms, but I've never had the continuing access required for a microdosing regiment. It'd be nice if the government were willing to come to the table on this, but alas. That said…

> night of turmoil. Can you elaborate?

Hanging out with spider demons at the end of time, that sort of shit.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#270

Post by yarg »

game-of-throws wrote: post #97
yarg wrote: post #3

(It's strange that we're using the term microdose, even in scientific contexts - prefixes have meanings - it should be called a decidose.) Anecdotally, I've had a degree of short term success treating my depression with smallish doses of mushrooms, but I've never had the continuing access required for a microdosing regiment. It'd be nice if the government were willing to come to the table on this, but alas. That said…

I think decidose would be even less accurate. A normal dose is 3g-5g. A microdose is 0.1g-0.2g. That's not a ratio of 10. At least microdose has a widely-agreed on colloquial meaning.

> We investigated the acute and short-term effects of 0.5 g of dried mushrooms on subjective experience, behavior ... and brain activity.
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