Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study • Hacker News Board

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#211

Post by karmanyaahm » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #159

zosima wrote: post #90

In studies such as these with huge intersubject variability, and probably also quite large intrasubject variability from day to day on many scales, it makes sense to look at change from baseline for individuals in the various groups rather than just differences in raw scores between treatment groups. It seems by a cursory glance that most analyses done were of the latter kind, and I think then a study such as this, w…

> it makes sense to look at change from baseline for individuals in the various groups rather than just differences in raw scores between treatment groups. That’s called cherry picking. Results are always noisy. You could give two groups of people the same tests on different days without any drugs at all and some subset would show “improvement”. If you start focusing on the individuals that show the result you want t…

> > it makes sense to look at change from baseline for individuals in the various groups rather than just differences in raw scores between treatment groups.

> That’s called cherry picking. Results are always noisy. You could give two groups of people the same tests on different days without any drugs at all and some subset would show “improvement”.

No, GP is talking about a matched pairs design. You look at the difference between the scores of very similar individuals by applying one treatment to each (active and placebo), or, applying both treatments to the same individual (in random order).

Cherry-picking would mean only using scores from selected individuals, whereas matching only emphasizes the difference.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#212

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #180

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "if it works for you" also go for things like aspirin, antihistamines, antihypertensives, antibiotics, etc? I've never heard anyone say "if aspirin works for you then take it, but it doesn't work for me". I've only heard this kind of thing said for things like homeopathy, astrology, accupuncture, osteopathy, and microdosing, of course. Hence, I'm very skeptical. [Edit: OK, I've heard people say that aspirin does…

It is quite common for different people have differing responses to medications like aspirin, antihistamines, and antihypertensives. For example my brother and I both have bad seasonal allergies. My brother takes Claritin for his and gets relief from the worse of his allergies when he does. If I take Claritin it doesn't reduce the impact of my allergies to any noticable degree. If I take Zyrtec my allergy symptoms ar…

[deleted]

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#213

Post by adrian_b » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #172

adrian_b wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While "micro" means indeed small, many people have the wrong impression that the similarly sounding "macro" must have an opposite meaning to "micro" so many incorrect terms have been coined, e.g. "macroscopic" vs. "microscopic". In reality, in Ancient Greek the opposite of "micro" was "mega", i.e. "big" (so megameter vs. micrometer was a correct addition to the metric system in 1873, like also the name Micromegas, wh…

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/macro

That dictionary only records the fact that most English speakers now use the word "macro" incorrectly, which was my point, because they do not know Ancient Greek and they follow some previous English speakers who also did not know Ancient Greek, but that did not stop them to use a Greek word they thought as sounding fancy and whose meaning they attempted to guess, without bothering to look in a dictionary, so they have guessed wrong.

This incorrect use of "macro" in English appears to have started in the second half of the 19th century, when the study of the classical languages in school was already in regression.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#214

Post by detaro » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

adrian_b wrote: post #213

jimmaswell wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/macro

That dictionary only records the fact that most English speakers now use the word "macro" incorrectly, which was my point, because they do not know Ancient Greek and they follow some previous English speakers who also did not know Ancient Greek, but that did not stop them to use a Greek word they thought as sounding fancy and whose meaning they attempted to guess, without bothering to look in a dictionary, so they ha…

The dictionary records what word means, today, in the english language.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#215

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #180

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does "if it works for you" also go for things like aspirin, antihistamines, antihypertensives, antibiotics, etc? I've never heard anyone say "if aspirin works for you then take it, but it doesn't work for me". I've only heard this kind of thing said for things like homeopathy, astrology, accupuncture, osteopathy, and microdosing, of course. Hence, I'm very skeptical. [Edit: OK, I've heard people say that aspirin does…

It is quite common for different people have differing responses to medications like aspirin, antihistamines, and antihypertensives. For example my brother and I both have bad seasonal allergies. My brother takes Claritin for his and gets relief from the worse of his allergies when he does. If I take Claritin it doesn't reduce the impact of my allergies to any noticable degree. If I take Zyrtec my allergy symptoms ar…

I think you're right and not all medicine works on everyone, but if one antihistamine doesn't work on you, then another one probably will. Like you say, one works on you, the other doesn't. That seems to be down to genetics, or some kind of biological characteristic, I guess.

But, for example, I was told that homeopathy doesn't work for me because I don't believe in it. And I think what the OP says that it's OK if "it" (in this case, microdosing rather than homeopathy) doesn't work for you then that "is OK too" is something I hear the most not from people who find that, say, aspirin doesn't work for them but ibuprofen, or paracetamol, does; but rather what I hear from people who take a remedy that not only has no effect on others, but has no documented effect on most people and has no clear mechanism of action, other perhaps than the placebo effect (which I understand to be regression to the mean).

So that's why I'm skeptical. With normal medicine, drugs will have an effect on some people or others regardless of whether someone believes they will or not, but with alternative remedies, they will only have an effect on those who believe in them and we can only observe the effect by asking them how they feel (for example, no homeopathic remedy will ever reduce blood pressure).

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#216

Post by eurasiantiger » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #169

austinjp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, define "impairment". Yes this study notes reduced performance in some areas (but the authors acknowledge plenty of weaknesses and explanations in their discussion). However, increases in something like "creativity" might reduce e.g. verbal fluency, while increasing "performance" for artists, or increasing insights when problem solving in many disciplines.

There are definitively a number of artists that say they work better with alcohol. "impairment" would be defined as something that increase risk of reduce performance, as in, people who drink alcohol has a higher risk of having their driving skill reduced compared to those who don't have alcohol in their blood. Such statement doesn't exclude the possibility that alcohol may increase driving ability compared to base l…

A lot of artists on the autistic spectrum have stated they’re not ”normal” if they don’t start their day with a drink.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#217

Post by adrian_b » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #214

adrian_b wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That dictionary only records the fact that most English speakers now use the word "macro" incorrectly, which was my point, because they do not know Ancient Greek and they follow some previous English speakers who also did not know Ancient Greek, but that did not stop them to use a Greek word they thought as sounding fancy and whose meaning they attempted to guess, without bothering to look in a dictionary, so they ha…

The dictionary records what word means, today, in the english language.

Like everybody else, I also have to use the words with their current meaning, so I use frequently words like "macroinstruction", possibly abbreviated to "macro", or "macroprocessor".

That does not mean that one should not be aware that the creation of such words was based on laziness and ignorance and one should not coin any new words of this series.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#218

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #210

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, that sounds too mystical to me and I don't believe in the supernatural. I note you're not the OP though?

The phrase is “set and setting” meaning that it is strongly advised to only take psychedelics when you have a good mindset and a good setting. The thing about psychedelics is that you will have powerful mental imagery during the trip, that’s just how they work. So what is on your mind that day will affect what you think about, and with the power of psychedelics I’m told it could get scary or bad if you’re in a partic…

Thanks for taking the time to explain, but if I understand correctly in the instances you relate, you were taking mushrooms specifically in order to get high, correct?

Whereas the OP (root of the thread) is talking about microdosing, which is, if I understand it correctly, taking drugs in an attempt to not get high, but get other benefits?

As to the "powerful feeling of connectedness with the universe", well, I've been drunk and I found that I loved everybody around me and I felt a strong emotional connection with total strangers. But, I was drunk. It's relaxing, it's disinhibiting, it's fun, it's making yourself deliberately and temporarily mentally impaired, why not? But there's nothing more to it.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the defining characteristic of intoxication, in my experience, is of being dumber than usual, which can be suprisingly enjoyable. Certainly not something to be desired as a constant state, though.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#219

Post by shudza » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #26

EmilyHughes wrote: post #20

Been doing it for some months on & off, this shit is legit. Altough 0,5g has me tripping so I rarely dose above 100 milligrams. Get up early, do a workout, take cold shower, meditate and then pop a microdose shrooms, feels great. Microdosing is like steroids for meditation. Especially helpful for the programmer logic types of people like me, gets you out of your head for some time and helps you connect with your emot…

Yeah, drugs feel great, news at 11. If psychiatry was just a matter of giving people a constant buzz, it would be solved a century ago. I'm not judging you for wanting to be high all the time, I've been there myself. But be intellectually honest and call it that, at least. Because it's not some kind of psychological panacea, and I wish people would stop implying it is. And yes, I've tried it. It made me high, but gen…

This. People need to stop looking for excuses and justification for wanting to experience drugs. I bet 95% percent of them 'missed out' doing it when it was age appropriate, and are just looking to scratch that itch while having a moral justification.

They end up overdoing, and overthinking about it and it all has a bad end.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#220

Post by akaij » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

adrian_b wrote: post #213

jimmaswell wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/macro

That dictionary only records the fact that most English speakers now use the word "macro" incorrectly, which was my point, because they do not know Ancient Greek and they follow some previous English speakers who also did not know Ancient Greek, but that did not stop them to use a Greek word they thought as sounding fancy and whose meaning they attempted to guess, without bothering to look in a dictionary, so they ha…

Language is a living thing, so it's in a constant state of change. A certain class of linguists would even go so far as to say there can be no incorrect use of words :)