Excel never dies (2021)
251–260 of 275 posts
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#252Hey, I work on Excel at Microsoft and wanted to say: if anyone here has any feature requests they want escalated - write them here and I will bring them up. P.S we actually do read all the feedback people leave in the feedback box - it goes mostly straight to the devs.
Can this be changed to keep running so behavior is same as a COM server update?
Typically COM server updates will still allow cells to be written to when clicking or scrolling and only suspend when a cell enters edit mode.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#253I've always hated excel. I'd much rather use R or Python. My first job used an Excel macro to automate tasks in a DOS emulator for some legacy software. It would take days to complete and would regularly crash. As they say, if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
I mean, but that same measure, you're advocating using R/Python as a hammer for everything. Python/R are great languages and tools, so is Excel, all three can be used in fantastic or awful ways.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#254Is it Excel that never dies, or is it the concept of spreadsheets in general?
Hmm. Well there's been a spreadsheet program called Excel around for quite a while. But I guess like the rest of Microsoft's programs, it has been updated over time. Maybe this is a Ship of Theseus sort of thing.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hypercard. The difference, of course, is that Excel wasn't abandoned by its owners like Hypercard was.
Check out Power Apps. It is functionally Hypercard on top of any Office 365 data sources you want.
I feel confident in my evaluation that PowerApps is in a completely different universe of accessibility and complexity from Hypercard.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give a more detailed description of what you were trying? I can't know for sure, but it sounds like Excel can easily handle what you've described, if you use it right. >the entire paradigm revolves around knowing the shape of your data in advance. How exactly do you program without knowing the shape of your data in advance? You need to know your database columns, or your JSON schema, etc. >(I was using Google…
> It also really annoys me when I see Linux/FOSS partisans tell Windows normies "oh you can do everything you can do in Excel in LibreOffice Calc" -- no you fucking well cannot. (And I use Linux on my personal computers full time). It seems like your argument is that alternatives don't have PowerQuery. That might be true (I don't even know what it is), but isn't that like saying Linux can't compete with Windows, beca…
It's true that Google sheets and LibreOffice don't have Powerquery, and that's a big pain. But the worse thing is that they don't have tables. As in, the "format as table" button in Excel. As in, the bread and butter of anyone who gets serious work done in Excel.
Maybe it's a problem of naming -- "format" makes people think it's just about aesthetics, but actually it imparts real semantic structure onto a rectangular grid of data. It also isn't the same thing as pivot tables, with which they are often confused. It gives the grid a name that you can refer to in formulae, and the columns are named too, with their names living inside the table namespace ("structured references" is what Microsoft calls it). The table automatically expands its boundaries when you start typing a column header to the right of the current columns, and likewise it expands to comprise the row beneath it if you type values into that row. And it has smart indexing: there's special syntax to refer to "this table" and "this row" in formulae.
So you can have say, a table named "ExpensesTable", labelled "Date", "Type of Expense" and "Amount" in columns A:C. Then you can type "Tax" at the top of column D, it will expand the table to include a new blank column for Tax. Then in D2, type
=[@[Amount]] * 0.2
and it will automatically fill down the Tax column with 20% of the value of the Amount columns. Then in a cell outside the table, do =sum(ExpensesTable[Amount])
to get the total amount of expenses. These are both simple examples; you can do more complex and interesting things involving multiple columns, ranges of columns, joins, etc. The point is the semantic structure that makes your spreadsheet more than just a rectangular soup of cells, so you don't have to claw through endless cryptic "G70:$K100" cell references. If we add a new row or column, we don't have to alter any formulae at all; the bounds are automatically resized on the cell arrays that the column names refer to. Think of it like a mutable resizable dataframe. It's the core data structure of an efficient, scalable, maintainable Excel document.More about structured references: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/using-structured-...
Also the "You Suck At Excel" talk by Joel Spolsky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nbkaYsR94c
And no, I have no idea why the eggheads at Google don't implement this for Sheets. Maybe Microsoft has a patent on it? Wouldn't surprise me. But this is why you'll have to pry Excel out of spreadsheet jockeys' cold dead hands -- the alternatives don't have this basic thing.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give a more detailed description of what you were trying? I can't know for sure, but it sounds like Excel can easily handle what you've described, if you use it right. >the entire paradigm revolves around knowing the shape of your data in advance. How exactly do you program without knowing the shape of your data in advance? You need to know your database columns, or your JSON schema, etc. >(I was using Google…
Your comment about FOSS is spot on. While I'm very aware that Google Sheets is not OSS, it felt much more amenable to me than Excel (and I'm sure Excel's online free version isn't particularly fantastic anyway, though it may be better than Sheets from what people are saying here). > How exactly do you program without knowing the shape of your data in advance? You need to know your database columns, or your JSON schem…
tldr your problem with Excel is that you don't grok tables. They eliminate the need to know the number of rows when writing your formulae.
I don't actually have Excel installed on the machine I'm using to type this, so I can't put my money where my mouth is like the vim guy did[1]. But I'm fairly sure you can achieve your goal with table references and liberal use of the XLOOKUP and FILTER functions. It'll get a little hairy since you have to go from Set -> Inventories -> Inventory Parts -> Parts, so maybe a bit of nesting. But I think doable. The LET function also helps to reduce formula complexity, it lets you make lexically-scoped variables inside your formulae. Use "data validation" to make a dropdown menu for the set names.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#258Hey, I work on Excel at Microsoft and wanted to say: if anyone here has any feature requests they want escalated - write them here and I will bring them up. P.S we actually do read all the feedback people leave in the feedback box - it goes mostly straight to the devs.
Ok, besides python support... The thing I'd like more than anything: A better way to edit cell with really long function calls. If nothing else, add color coded parenthesis to the bar at the top and not just in the cell. Like, sometimes you just need some if/else statements... but try to parse and edit even something fairly simple like: =IF(AND(LongExpression > 3, Other_longexpression 5,Other_longexpression Even with…
=LET(
foo, LongExpression,
bar, OtherLongExpression,
baz, AnotherLongExpression,
bax, YetAnotherLongExpression
IFS(
AND(foo > 3, bar 5, bar
The formula bar can be resized and you can insert new lines with alt-enter. Sadly there's no easy way to indent, you just have to tap the spacebar (or write the formulae in Notepad++ and copypaste across like I do). Also I recommend using Lisp style "close parentheses all at the end of the line" style, rather than "Egyptian brackets".Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#259Hey, I work on Excel at Microsoft and wanted to say: if anyone here has any feature requests they want escalated - write them here and I will bring them up. P.S we actually do read all the feedback people leave in the feedback box - it goes mostly straight to the devs.
- INCREMENTAL FIND WITHOUT A FAILURE MODAL in the ctrl-f window. Right now, when no match is found, it pops up a modal saying "no match found" that you have to dismiss! Jeff Atwood called this craziness out in 2006 https://blog.codinghorror.com/unnecessary-dialogs-stopping-t... it's amazing it's still in a flagship Microsoft product in 2022.
- REGEX FIND-REPLACE in the ctrl-f window. Put it in an "advanced" tab or something, but it would be invaluable when doing archaeology on some giganormous spreadsheet someone hands off to you, and you have to figure out wtf is going on. Or I need to make a complicated change across the whole spreadsheet and I'm wishing for something like sed or awk.
- REGEX match / substitution as a cell formula would be pretty neat too. String processing is pretty tricky as it is.
- MULTIPLE-SUBSTITUTION. If I need to replace many substrings in a string, I need to do ="SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(SUBSTITUTE(..." etc, it's annoying. Do for SUBSTITUTE what you did for IF: a SUBSTITUTES version (note the S) that would work like: "=SUBSTITUTES(string, substring1, replacement1, substring2, replacement2, ...)"
- INDENTING in the formula bar. I don't like having to tap space all the time or copypaste from Notepad++. Also: monospace font in the formula bar, pretty please.
- The "trace dependents" / "trace predecessors" thing, when you click on an arrow (hard to click btw, very narrow target), the window that pops up can't be resized, so you can't actually read a long formula. It should be resizable.
- You can merge cells horizontally or vertically, but it's generally discouraged in favor of "center across selection". Problem: you can only "center across selection" horizontally. Would be good to be able to do this vertically as well.
- When using the "check compatibility" feature, it takes a LOT of clicking through menus to find a possible problem, and then when you click "go to" (I forgot the exact name of the button, but whatever it is you click to see the cell where the incompatibility is), the compatibility checker window you came from disappears. So if you want to find another incompatibility, you have to go through all those menus again. Immense pain.
- My excitement of using PowerQuery was matched only by my disappointment of finding out that it doesn't support SQLite databases.
- Meta note: I saw someone from the Excel team post on /r/excel a while ago soliciting feedback. I wanted to give some of my own, but I had to go through some dumb bureaucracy, and the data consent form / NDA said Microsoft would get rights over my biometric data or something preposterous like that. I just wanted to give feedback to the Excel devs but not if there's such dystopian nonsense to deal with. Can I just email you? Or you email me, it's in the "about" part of my profile.
- A way to track down and squish ALL external links. Sometimes a warning pops up about external references but it's not actionable, because they can be lurking in so many dark corners and there's no way to enumerate all of them. It's not as simple as searching through formulae for things like "C:\"; they can be in weird shit like chart axis labels and conditional formatting and god knows what else. I've had cases where I've been working on a single Excel document as part of a team, and somebody unknowingly introduced external links somewhere, the warning came up, and we couldn't find them. Org policy said we couldn't distribute it if there were external links, so we basically had to "declare bankruptcy" and start again, carefully reproducing our work in a blank document, copying stuff over a piece at a time.
- Generally: better tools for understanding a large unfamiliar project. The predecessors / dependents feature is very anemic, but it's about the only thing on the menu right now for understanding macro-scale control flow and data dependence.
- Linting / "code quality" tools? I definitely don't want some kind of clippy-esque flow-breaking "it looks like you're using vlookup, did you know xlookup is better?" popup, but maybe some kind of tab or button to highlight formula antipatterns and suggest autofixes. E.g. it could detect nested IF and suggest an equivalent using IFS (flat is better than nested). One thing I've noticed is that experienced Excel users get kind of stuck in their ways and don't know about new features that can simplify things, but if they got used to consulting this system, it would alert them to new features in a natural, non-annoying way. You could put this into the "check for problems" system, people are already used to checking that for version incompatibility and accessibility.
.. this is more than a few things, I kept thinking of more stuff as I was writing.
Re: Excel never dies (2021)
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It also really annoys me when I see Linux/FOSS partisans tell Windows normies "oh you can do everything you can do in Excel in LibreOffice Calc" -- no you fucking well cannot. (And I use Linux on my personal computers full time). It seems like your argument is that alternatives don't have PowerQuery. That might be true (I don't even know what it is), but isn't that like saying Linux can't compete with Windows, beca…
>It seems like your argument is that alternatives don't have PowerQuery. That might be true (I don't even know what it is), but isn't that like saying Linux can't compete with Windows, because it doesn't have Internet Explorer? I mean, it doesn't, but there are excellent alternatives that can accomplish exactly the same task. It's true that Google sheets and LibreOffice don't have Powerquery, and that's a big pain. B…
I mean, isn't this just a button that adds some named ranges for you?
You can replicate the exact example you gave with named ranges. If there is something it can do that named ranges can't, then please use that example instead. Similarly, if you think there is something that "Power Query" can do that SQL cannot, then please show that.
I literally use Lotus 1-2-3 for UNIX (I'm not kidding! http://123r3.net).
So far, all of the examples I've seen you give could have been done in 1989 on a VT100 terminal connected to SystemV. You could even write a quick macro in that generates the named ranges from column headers with one keystroke, it would be really trivial.