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French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

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Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#131
post #53

Cmon we've been joking with exactly this picture for years now on the internet. The other really popular joke one is the pancake that, specially in B&W, looks like a moon! https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/pancake-that-resemb...

These aren't the times for such jokes. Many people take this as proof of lying experts that ridicule the non experts. You can make these jokes in your peer group but outsiders of these group may feel degraded.

Sorry but I don't recognize your authority to tell people when to tell jokes or not.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#132
post #64

Cmon we've been joking with exactly this picture for years now on the internet. The other really popular joke one is the pancake that, specially in B&W, looks like a moon! https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/pancake-that-resemb...

I'm not sure exactly who "we" is, but I've spent more than a reasonable amount of time on the internet for years and don't recall having seen either picture.

I was on mobile forced to use Google Japan and in a rush so that was a similar-ish pic, the one I had actually seen before was this:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/pancake-moon--7803900602743385...

But either works, as long as it's a pancake that looks a bit like the moon.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a lot of fun if someone competent with physics explained how celestial bodies would behave if they were made of meat. That'd be a fun Youtube video imo.

Looks like today is your lucky day! https://youtu.be/ZP7K9SycELA

This was great, thanks for the share -- got a bunch of laughs out of me.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#134
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that undermines the inherent objectiveness of scientists. If people have to be skeptical of scientists they will not believe anything that they say (take the ideas of relativity or quantum mechanics). Scientists have one thing going for them in public communication and trustworthiness is it.

> If people have to be skeptical of scientists they will not believe anything that they say Wait, are you seriously arguing that people shouldn't be skeptical of scientists? I was a scientist at doctoral course level and I sure didn't blindly believe whatever was written in a paper, or said by another researcher: a lot of papers are weak, biased in their protocol, or even straight-up arrangement with reality. This la…

Yes, I’m saying that. You are a scientist but imagine what the space of skepticism in the general public actually looks like. Anybody with a political motivation can ‘take down’ climate change, vaccines, or even a tound earth.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#135
If he did not allow the joke to spin out for more than (say) 24 hours, and if he doesn't make a habit out of this stuff, then I'd cut him slack and say: Well done! A good joke can go very far in 24 hours, esp'ly if not marked with the disclaimer "April 1". But then again, if he had made a fake timestamp in the corner with "April 1" then nobody would be complaining.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The picture he posted is so obviously and visibly a slice of chorizo that it really is no more than a good joke, nothing smug about it. IMHO, it does demonstrate his point very well if some people took his statement that it was Proxima Centauri at face value simply because he is an expert.

It is not "obviously and visibly a slice of chorizo" to me ... google pictures of venus and it's not clear that this photo is in any way clearly a fake to a lay person.

There is a huge difference between distinguishing fake artist rendition Venus from real Venus pictures and distinguishing a slice of sausage vs a celestial body.

In the former the fake Venus is supposed to look like Venus. In the latter the sausage looks like nothing you can find in space.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people have to be skeptical of scientists they will not believe anything that they say Wait, are you seriously arguing that people shouldn't be skeptical of scientists? I was a scientist at doctoral course level and I sure didn't blindly believe whatever was written in a paper, or said by another researcher: a lot of papers are weak, biased in their protocol, or even straight-up arrangement with reality. This la…

You were a scientist so you have the power to understand. For the general population the choice is between the voodoo man, or a professor. I prefer people to choose to blindly believe the professor (which carries a risk) than the voodoo man (which is always crap)

> choice is between the voodoo man, or a professor

Those categories are not mutually exclusive. Universities are filled with gender or other crackpot theories "academics" that don't follow scientific methods. Even in the real science realm, having academics credentials is a more effective way to turn into a voodoo man in an unrelated field than starting from scratch.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#138
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people have to be skeptical of scientists they will not believe anything that they say Wait, are you seriously arguing that people shouldn't be skeptical of scientists? I was a scientist at doctoral course level and I sure didn't blindly believe whatever was written in a paper, or said by another researcher: a lot of papers are weak, biased in their protocol, or even straight-up arrangement with reality. This la…

Yes, I’m saying that. You are a scientist but imagine what the space of skepticism in the general public actually looks like. Anybody with a political motivation can ‘take down’ climate change, vaccines, or even a tound earth.

> Anybody with a political motivation can ‘take down’ climate change, vaccines, or even a tound earth.

And this is a good thing because the first two things on that list, given the impact it has on the living style population, must be discussed publicly. Politics exist precisely to address those kind of broad impact topics.

The last and lasting blow done to scientific credibility was precisely about the so-called vaccines. A barely tested medical product based on a tech that never worked previously released by a big company known for corruption was decreed to be "science", all while changing the definition in dictionaries to make it a "vaccine". No discussion on the subject even by experts was tolerated, the big internet companies erased opposition and some governments went as far as stripping basic rights (movement, expression, business) to citizens, all in the name of science.

The fact is, this isn't a data-based or scientific approach at all. It's only power-tripping. A data based-approach would have shown clearly about 3 months in the crisis that the population at large isn't even at risk. Explaining to the population the risk ventilated by age would have been 100 times more scientific than the fear-mongering broadcasted continually on TV. Science needs to be used as a justification carefully, and using it dogmatically for pushing something that was ironically not even scientifically proven to be effective nor without risks (I'm pretty sure the newspapers in my country never reported the thousand or so dead directly imputable to it) is the exact opposite.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#139
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I’m saying that. You are a scientist but imagine what the space of skepticism in the general public actually looks like. Anybody with a political motivation can ‘take down’ climate change, vaccines, or even a tound earth.

> Anybody with a political motivation can ‘take down’ climate change, vaccines, or even a tound earth. And this is a good thing because the first two things on that list, given the impact it has on the living style population, must be discussed publicly. Politics exist precisely to address those kind of broad impact topics. The last and lasting blow done to scientific credibility was precisely about the so-called vac…

I agree science needs to be used as a justification carefully, and pushing COVID vaccines out quickly may or may not have been a good use of that power (consider other diseases though). But I still believe that science needs that credibility in order to have a fighting chance of influencing policy because science is so difficult and in places counterintuitive that a public "debate" about it will inevitably end up with a worse truth.

Politics doesn't exist precisely to address those topics, politics exists for people to obtain power. Discussing those topics may be a route to power. Without a respect for science as a more objective truth than rhetoric, power will be secured by the most appealing rhetoric, whether or not that voice conflicts directly with the science that we know.

Re: French scientist's photo of ‘distant star’ was chorizo

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were a scientist so you have the power to understand. For the general population the choice is between the voodoo man, or a professor. I prefer people to choose to blindly believe the professor (which carries a risk) than the voodoo man (which is always crap)

> choice is between the voodoo man, or a professor Those categories are not mutually exclusive. Universities are filled with gender or other crackpot theories "academics" that don't follow scientific methods. Even in the real science realm, having academics credentials is a more effective way to turn into a voodoo man in an unrelated field than starting from scratch.

Certainly. The difference is that you may have something like 10% of crackpots at the university (in science), when that number is a strong 100% in pseudoscience/voodoo/religion etc.
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