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Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

nature.com

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Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#41

Post by cdot2 »

ace2358 wrote: post #40
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study doesn't bear that out, nor have any other placebo-controlled trials. Also, I've experienced about 40 different psychoactive drugs, including both micro and megadoses of psychedelics. And my experience tracks with GP in that it does cognitively impair you. Maybe don't make blanket statements about people you disagree with, it doesn't make your argument look any stronger.

This aligns with my experiences. Especially for me, how low my productivity was during the come down, which could sometimes last a week or four!

How do you know you wouldn't have felt the same about a placebo?

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#42

Post by austinjp »

OJFord wrote: post #28
feet wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people may also just be more sensitive to serotonergics, therefore it's simply easier for them to identify

But regardless of what enabled them to identify it - even if just a 50:50 guess, but a correct one - thinking they were on it (vs. thinking they were not) made it a significant enhancement? That seems like a 'bigger' result to me than what's claimed. (Which is why I'm not sure I'm understanding it correctly.)

It is ambiguously worded, I agree.

I'm on mobile so I've only cursorily scanned the article. Looking at subfig E in figure 1, it seems that differences between active and placebo were minimal. I haven't checked their stats relating to those differences.

So I think the effect the authors found does seem small.

However, usual caveats: very small study, etc. I'd want to review the reliability and sensitivity of the questionnaires they used. Subjective experiences are of course difficult to capture reliably.

Having said that, and considering I've only scanned this briefly, it seems like a well designed study - for what it's doing. Adding the quantitative elements of EEG etc is nice.

The discussion section is good, the authors acknowledge several possible weaknesses and explore explanations.

So overall, looks interesting, but it's not definitive (and the authors don't claim it is). It's not a refutation of microdosing, it just adds to the literature, and perhaps offers things for future researchers to explore/control.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#43

Post by eurasiantiger »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #29
eurasiantiger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common fallacy perpetuated by people who have only experienced the alcohol drug. Microdoses of psychedelics are not impairing. On the contrary, they can improve performance, especially in abstract problem solving.

This study doesn't bear that out, nor have any other placebo-controlled trials. Also, I've experienced about 40 different psychoactive drugs, including both micro and megadoses of psychedelics. And my experience tracks with GP in that it does cognitively impair you. Maybe don't make blanket statements about people you disagree with, it doesn't make your argument look any stronger.

Perhaps people are different in this regard.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#44

Post by austinjp »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #29
eurasiantiger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common fallacy perpetuated by people who have only experienced the alcohol drug. Microdoses of psychedelics are not impairing. On the contrary, they can improve performance, especially in abstract problem solving.

This study doesn't bear that out, nor have any other placebo-controlled trials. Also, I've experienced about 40 different psychoactive drugs, including both micro and megadoses of psychedelics. And my experience tracks with GP in that it does cognitively impair you. Maybe don't make blanket statements about people you disagree with, it doesn't make your argument look any stronger.

Erm, define "impairment". Yes this study notes reduced performance in some areas (but the authors acknowledge plenty of weaknesses and explanations in their discussion). However, increases in something like "creativity" might reduce e.g. verbal fluency, while increasing "performance" for artists, or increasing insights when problem solving in many disciplines.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#45

Post by eurasiantiger »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #26
EmilyHughes wrote: post #20

Been doing it for some months on & off, this shit is legit. Altough 0,5g has me tripping so I rarely dose above 100 milligrams. Get up early, do a workout, take cold shower, meditate and then pop a microdose shrooms, feels great. Microdosing is like steroids for meditation. Especially helpful for the programmer logic types of people like me, gets you out of your head for some time and helps you connect with your emot…

Yeah, drugs feel great, news at 11. If psychiatry was just a matter of giving people a constant buzz, it would be solved a century ago. I'm not judging you for wanting to be high all the time, I've been there myself. But be intellectually honest and call it that, at least. Because it's not some kind of psychological panacea, and I wish people would stop implying it is. And yes, I've tried it. It made me high, but gen…

Uh, so you took a break from your ADHD medication to microdose?

And you claim it is the microdose that made you less productive?

I posit you need to take a microdose with your normal ADHD medication, otherwise the anecdote is meaningless even as a personal reference.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#46

Post by anovikov »

It's very difficult to dose mushrooms properly, in real world, content of psilocybin in a particular bag of mushrooms may vary by a factor of 5 or more, plus it decays at speed hard to predict. Even proper taking of mushrooms is quite unpredictable - you can be blown away or hardly feel anything - and microdosing is always harder. Personally i don't like mushrooms for that reason. If you could eat more if the original amount turned insufficient that would be OK, but psychodelics just don't work that way.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#47

Post by EmilyHughes »

dtx1 wrote: post #36
EmilyHughes wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me I tried all kinds of drugs and psychedelics are not the kind that get you hooked. Stimulants are especially addictive in my opinion. Psychs are the kind of drugs you say I have enough for a while if you overdo. On top of it they build tolerance immediately.

Can confirm, especially mushrooms. I had one trip on them and what my main take away was: It's exhausting to trip on mushrooms and after 4-5 hours I wanted to be sober again. I'll probably do it again in a few month but for me it's a whole-weekend kind of deal and hardly a party drug

It can be a "party drug" if you dose low, especially if you are chilling at a bar with friends. Just pushes you into a slightly better mood. I'll rather have a microdose with some beers than getting shitfaced drunk, feels subjectively healthier to me.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#48

Post by istinetz »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #29
eurasiantiger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common fallacy perpetuated by people who have only experienced the alcohol drug. Microdoses of psychedelics are not impairing. On the contrary, they can improve performance, especially in abstract problem solving.

This study doesn't bear that out, nor have any other placebo-controlled trials. Also, I've experienced about 40 different psychoactive drugs, including both micro and megadoses of psychedelics. And my experience tracks with GP in that it does cognitively impair you. Maybe don't make blanket statements about people you disagree with, it doesn't make your argument look any stronger.

>I've experienced about 40 different psychoactive drugs

That is insane

How is your brain not fried

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#50

Post by mritchie712 »

yarg wrote: post #3

(It's strange that we're using the term microdose, even in scientific contexts - prefixes have meanings - it should be called a decidose.) Anecdotally, I've had a degree of short term success treating my depression with smallish doses of mushrooms, but I've never had the continuing access required for a microdosing regiment. It'd be nice if the government were willing to come to the table on this, but alas. That said…

Have you tried Kratom? I'm by no means recommending it, just curious if you've tried it to combat depression.
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