Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study • Hacker News Board

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#11

Post by nabla9 » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:15 AM UTC

Gimpei wrote: post #4

The N of this study is 34, but it’s probably multiple observation. How do you calculate power in this case? Is it just based off N, in which case, seems low…

Statistical analysis exploratory studies tho get some ballpark numbers. They didn't even estimate power in this case. If you have to rely on statistics to observe effect, the effect is small.

The most likely biases and noise comes from experimental design and other factors related to the study.

In exploratory science doing two different studies with N=30 is much better than doing one study with N=60.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#12

Post by moravak1984 » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:16 AM UTC

Maursault wrote: post #5

Maybe the trendy hallucinogenic microdosers should try microdosing food, water, air, speech and constantly being the center of attention. It just isn't interesting giving credibility to a new ignorant generation rediscovering what was known in some cases 60-80 years earlier, in some cases thousands of years earlier. Rediscovery is not interesting. It is embarassing.

> and constantly being the center of attention.

Microdosing that one alone would bring enormous benefits... "Ego death" is basically an axiom on all doctrines promising more fulfilling, meaningful lives.

Yes, psilocybin helps a lot on microdosing it... One-point anecdata.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#13

Post by eurasiantiger » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:16 AM UTC

Based on available literature, 0,5 grams of dried mushrooms is definitely not a microdose.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#14

Post by carrychains » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:21 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #9

timthorn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's strange that we're using the term microdose, even in scientific contexts - prefixes have meanings - it should be called a decidose. Not really - its from the Greek for small, rather than a SI prefix in this context. If the suffix were quantitative then you might have a case, but we talk quite happily about microphones and microscopes. Microdose is useful because it is not conditional on a particular regular do…

What is the difference between "Low Dose" and "Microdose" though? I have heard the specific term Low Dose before.

Generally, a microdose is supposed to be below threshold. In other words, imperceptible. A low dose can be above threshold. This study seems to be testing something most microdose adherents would refer to as a low dose.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#15

Post by ivoras » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:21 AM UTC

I have a feeling the hedonic treadmill is to blame.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#16

Post by moravak1984 » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:21 AM UTC

Cockbrand wrote: post #2

The TL;DR essence from the abstract: > The reported acute effects were significantly more intense for the active dose compared to the placebo, but only for participants who correctly identified their experimental condition. [...] For all other measurements there was no effect of microdosing except for few small changes towards cognitive impairment. According to our findings, low doses of psilocybin mushrooms can resu…

> but without evidence to support enhanced well-being, creativity and cognitive function. We conclude that expectation underlies at least some of the anecdotal benefits attributed to microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms.

Well, clearly far-fetched from original research goals, and from what it means to creativity in particular.

In my experience, creative periods require a sustained abstainment of other info sources combined with a self-stimulating force and (sometimes) a controlled use of mind-altering substances (from coffee to full-dose mushrooms). So asking for creativity improvements on a small-sample, scope-constrained study is way too far-fetched from that.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#17

Post by Syzygies » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:21 AM UTC

Cockbrand wrote: post #2

The TL;DR essence from the abstract: > The reported acute effects were significantly more intense for the active dose compared to the placebo, but only for participants who correctly identified their experimental condition. [...] For all other measurements there was no effect of microdosing except for few small changes towards cognitive impairment. According to our findings, low doses of psilocybin mushrooms can resu…

> but only for participants who correctly identified their experimental condition.

So the creatures who can take flight in a light breeze are the ones who can sense the breeze. That sounds about right.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#18

Post by eurasiantiger » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:22 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #9

timthorn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's strange that we're using the term microdose, even in scientific contexts - prefixes have meanings - it should be called a decidose. Not really - its from the Greek for small, rather than a SI prefix in this context. If the suffix were quantitative then you might have a case, but we talk quite happily about microphones and microscopes. Microdose is useful because it is not conditional on a particular regular do…

What is the difference between "Low Dose" and "Microdose" though? I have heard the specific term Low Dose before.

Microdose = sub-perceptual dose

Threshold dose = dose at which effects can barely be perceived

Low dose = dose at which effects become definitely perceptible

The people in this study were taking something between a threshold dose and a low dose, given some interpersonal variability.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#19

Post by eurasiantiger » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:25 AM UTC

nevershower wrote: post #10

I see the appeal of microdosing, but to me it renders similar to the kick you might get out of rebelliously sipping a pocket-flask at work. You get the mental boost of "letting loose" while impaired just below the radar.

This is a common fallacy perpetuated by people who have only experienced the alcohol drug.

Microdoses of psychedelics are not impairing. On the contrary, they can improve performance, especially in abstract problem solving.

Re: Microdosing with psilocybin mushrooms: a double-blind placebo-controlled study

#20

Post by EmilyHughes » Sat, Aug 06, 2022, 9:27 AM UTC

Been doing it for some months on & off, this shit is legit. Altough 0,5g has me tripping so I rarely dose above 100 milligrams.

Get up early, do a workout, take cold shower, meditate and then pop a microdose shrooms, feels great. Microdosing is like steroids for meditation.

Especially helpful for the programmer logic types of people like me, gets you out of your head for some time and helps you connect with your emotions and body.