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Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#311

Post by pacomerh »

pessimizer wrote: post #10

I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories he wants whether or not he believes them himself, but he slandered the parents of dead children to the degree that some of the most insane and aggressive people in the world think that they're the agents of a world conspiracy with the intent to enslave the planet. $50 mil is a light judgement.

Very contradictory. In many cases these insane theories or "freedom of speech" incite actions that affect innocent people. It all sounds very poetic and free until it happens to you right. If your sense of reality becomes someone else's reality how can you defend yourself?.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#312

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #208
speakfreely wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an important point. Many of us here live in cities, but in rural America there is a stunning amount of people who really believe that Joe Biden lost the 2020 election and that there was a massive, coordinated campaign of voter fraud. In many dominantly red states, this is not considered a fringe conspiracy theory but more or less generally accepted as fact.

Quoted post unavailable.

We conducted an undisputed (and still somewhat close) presidential election in 1944, in the middle of World War 2, just prior to the Battle of the Bulge and with half a million servicepeople in the Solomon Islands and the Philippines. But somehow we're meant to dignify the objections of gullible voters who don't understand how a drop-off box works. Spare us.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#313

Post by threatofrain »

gerdesj wrote: post #70
pessimizer wrote: post #10

I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories he wants whether or not he believes them himself, but he slandered the parents of dead children to the degree that some of the most insane and aggressive people in the world think that they're the agents of a world conspiracy with the intent to enslave the planet. $50 mil is a light judgement.

"I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories" I think you are a supporter of freedom of speech in general - that's something I thoroughly approve of too. I also think you are able to understand the difference between seeing a horrendous crime and seeing that crime and attempting to profit from it. That seems to be what this bloke did: He tried to change and engorge the narrative regarding t…

> He was caught out rather neatly when his defence team sent rather too much SMS data to the prosecution.

Minor nitpick: this was a civil trial so it's just plaintiff vs defendant.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#314

Post by bandyaboot »

roenxi wrote: post #302
bandyaboot wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re responding to “Read the Mueller report.” With [I’m not going to read the Mueller report]. Thanks for letting me know. I mean, honestly, you’re bothered by lack of details so because of that…you’re choosing not to read the parts where one would expect to find the details.

I've got a few pages left in me. I'm pretty sceptical you can find anything that I'll admit is evidence of anything that is even abnormal, let alone concerning (I'm anticipating stuff like "presidential candidate talks to Russians!" as though it isn't the presidents job to negotiate with Russians, or those hilariously small amounts of money that got spent on posting social media articles). Which section do you think…

I seems like maybe you’ve decided to read more into my original comment than what’s actually there.

The entirety of what I’m saying right now is “Both the Mueller and Senate Intel committee reports contain pretty extensive evidence and detailing of a significant interference campaign by the Russians on the 2016 election”. I was responding in regards to “blaming Russians” which was far from a baseless conspiracy theory.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#315

Post by kolanos »

ncallaway wrote: post #180
sophacles wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be due process concerns over refusing to follow the due process?

Jones was afforded due process. Due process requires you to participate in the _process_, which he refused to do repeatedly, for years. He can appeal, but the authority for a trial court to issue a default judgement is not new precedent but rather well established. It’s quite _rare_, but it’s happened before.

> He can appeal, but the authority for a trial court to issue a default judgement is not new precedent but rather well established. It’s quite _rare_, but it’s happened before.

It should be noted that default judgments rarely stick when appealed.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#316

Post by roenxi »

bandyaboot wrote: post #314
roenxi wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a few pages left in me. I'm pretty sceptical you can find anything that I'll admit is evidence of anything that is even abnormal, let alone concerning (I'm anticipating stuff like "presidential candidate talks to Russians!" as though it isn't the presidents job to negotiate with Russians, or those hilariously small amounts of money that got spent on posting social media articles). Which section do you think…

I seems like maybe you’ve decided to read more into my original comment than what’s actually there. The entirety of what I’m saying right now is “Both the Mueller and Senate Intel committee reports contain pretty extensive evidence and detailing of a significant interference campaign by the Russians on the 2016 election”. I was responding in regards to “blaming Russians” which was far from a baseless conspiracy theor…

And yet you've now made it through 3 posts without doing anything as gauche as mentioning what that evidence is, providing a sample of it or articulating what the Russians have done that you don't like apart from being foreign. As alluded to previously, the biggest complaint most have seems to be that they were allegedly [^] bringing honesty into a political context. They have no power to influence US elections, as shown by their inability to do anything apart from one push in 2016. Look how they couldn't manage "interference" in 2012 and it magically disappeared by 2020. Possibly Russians can be defeated with concentrated Democrat fanfiction [&]?

One momentary peak of Russian power that you are struggling to narrow down to an example, despite having a 450 page report that you don't feel like quoting from because, presumably, nobody thinks the issue is important enough to explain to the doubters.

You've got nothing. The Muller report is a high-class version of exactly the same conspiratorial gibber that Jones is pumping out.

[^] And although I don't care on the point, I haven't seen the evidence for this either, I assume all the intelligence agencies have tools to pretend to be other agencies when hacking things. I expect even on this point it isn't clear it was the Russians but if it was I support them for good journalism.

[&] Which is what the Muller report seems to be. Rather steamy, no plot.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#317

Post by DoctorOW »

roenxi wrote: post #304
DoctorOW wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the link you meant to paste? I don't see the relevance?

I'll give you a hint - it is impossible to do Pulitzer-prize level reporting on a hoax without uncovering that it is a hoax. They knew they were fabricating a story out of nothing. And that isn't a problem, it is celebrated as good journalism. The only thing that is different about Jones is he is targeting low-class low-intelligence audiences.

Okay I was giving you a benefit of the doubt. But you're literally being the exact type of conspiracy theorist I was criticizing in my original comment.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#318

Post by bt4u »

pessimizer wrote: post #10

I'm a supporter of Jones being able to spread whatever insane theories he wants whether or not he believes them himself, but he slandered the parents of dead children to the degree that some of the most insane and aggressive people in the world think that they're the agents of a world conspiracy with the intent to enslave the planet. $50 mil is a light judgement.

No post body was provided.

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#319

Post by phpisthebest »

pstuart wrote: post #263
phpisthebest wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to that is not suppression of the idea(s), in fact attempts to suppress anyone talking about the election only serve as fuel to expand the number of people that believe it, as "what are they trying to hide" becomes of the main part of the story. Greater, and Actual Transparency combined with a trust worthily network of news outlets would go along way to shut down these types of discussions Sadly we have…

> Want to tone down the number of people that believe in conspiracy... More Facts, less Spin... Really? More facts will change their minds? Who will they trust with those facts? This is bordering on cult-like behavior and it shows no signs of improving -- I'm not optimistic about this at all.

Trust is built over decades, and torn down in minutes.

News outlets (on both sides) have been caught in multiple partisans lies, disinformation, and spin/suppression of inconvenient facts for "their side" for many years now, this has eroded the trust in media and makes presentation of facts harder.

Neither side wants to acknowledge anything that would be seen as supporting the position of the "others"

So in the context of the election, you have one side that refuses to concede that Biden was elected by the people, but you also have the other side refusing to concede that because of COVID and other factors the 2020 election has some pretty non-standard events that (while not impacting the outcome of the presidential election) is the basis of the questioning of the integrity of the election, instead we have people saying the 2020 was the freest, fairest election in all of history because their side won..

neither position is true or healthy, and both position have Cult-Like behavior

Re: Alex Jones must pay $50m in punitive damages for Sandy Hook hoax claim

#320

Post by roenxi »

DoctorOW wrote: post #317
roenxi wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you a hint - it is impossible to do Pulitzer-prize level reporting on a hoax without uncovering that it is a hoax. They knew they were fabricating a story out of nothing. And that isn't a problem, it is celebrated as good journalism. The only thing that is different about Jones is he is targeting low-class low-intelligence audiences.

Okay I was giving you a benefit of the doubt. But you're literally being the exact type of conspiracy theorist I was criticizing in my original comment.

Well, now I'm very confused. Where do you think the conspiracy is here? I don't think there is one. And the Washington Post doesn't count as big tech (nor does the NYT).

The whole point is that there was no conspiracy, and that those two papers were making it up. Like Jones does and for very similar reasons (people love to hear a good conspiracy theory). conspiracy theorising is a fun and routine activity in the press.

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