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Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

accessnow.org

101–110 of 126 posts

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original claim was that the senate was bypassed (non-democratic). A majority in the Senate is democratic if democratically elected etc. I'm not sure what this means - that the NDA government could bypass the Rajya Sabha for 90% (the number quoted in the original claim) of bills? That doesn't make sense. I don't see how that is even possible. The only way that the Rajya Sabha can be effectively bypassed is by the…

I think anuraj edited his comment. He originally said, “Modi bypasses parliament to pass his own bills.” So our debates are starting to lose context.

I see.

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#102
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that is true on rhetoric - on practice it is not. While 60% of bills went through parliamentary scrutiny prior to 2014 - the number today is just above 10%. Also Modi has the distinction of passing maximum bills without debate and bypassing the state senate altogether.

A sad consequence of one political party having a majority in the parliament. Modi supporters tout it as a harbinger of efficiency bill passing when in reality it's just eroded democracy.

Many countries operate like this. It's the downside of having a parliamentary system (which IMO is better than a presidential one). Greece and Japan are good examples. Canada to a certain extent too in the past (with the LPC).

Also for a good chunk of its history, India has been run on super majorities as pointed out in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32346371

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#103

The article seems to suggest a relatively good bill shot down by a weak or corrupt government that serves the interests of big companies with bad practices who don't want to be sued, actual data predators, etc. But without details, "Personal Data Protection" can be newspeak for government-sanctioned abuse, like laws against "Child Pornography" that are actually intended to establish interception platforms. Are there…

I question your claim of a weak or corrupt government based on the article below. It sounds like there was pushback from Startups who complained about compliance intensity, concerns about definitions of data storage when it came to adversarial countries, and a host of other concerns:

History:

In 2017, the Indian Supreme Court recognised the right to privacy as a fundamental right within the ambit of the Constitution. The top court had directed the Centre to come up with a data protection framework for the country. The data protection law for India has been in the works since 2018, when a panel led by Justice Srikrishna, a retired judge of the Supreme Court, drew up a draft version of a Bill. The draft was reviewed by the JCP, which submitted its recommendations along with a draft Bill in November 2021.

Why has the Bill been withdrawn?

In a note circulated to Members of Parliament, Union IT Minister Ashwini Vaishnaw explained the reason behind the withdrawal of the Bill: “The Personal Data Protection Bill, 2019 was deliberated in great detail by the Joint Committee of Parliament. 81 amendments were proposed and 12 recommendations were made towards a comprehensive legal framework on the digital ecosystem. Considering the report of the JCP, a comprehensive legal framework is being worked upon. Hence, in the circumstances, it is proposed to withdraw ‘The Personal Data Protection Bill, 2019’ and present a new Bill that fits into the comprehensive legal framework.

The Bill was also seen as being too “compliance intensive” by startups of the country, The Indian Express had reported earlier. According to government sources, the revamped Bill will be much easier to comply with, especially for startups.

So what could the revamped Bill look like?

Specific provisions or contours of the upcoming new Bill are not known. But a senior official said that on the question of data localisation, the government is considering whether to add it to the planned new version of the Information Technology Act, and whether to allow cross-border data flows only to “trusted geographies”

When is the revamped Bill expected to be ready?

Minister of State for Electronics and IT Rajeev Chandrasekhar said the government will table the new legislation in Parliament “very quickly”. “The government has today withdrawn the Personal Data Protection Bill that was formulated in 2018 and re-written by the JCP in 2021,” Chandrasekhar said on Wednesday (August 3). “After considerable deliberation and examination of the JCP’s report, it was found that there is a need for a comprehensive redrawing of laws and rules taking into account some of the JCP’s comments and the emerging challenges and opportunities that arise from there. A comprehensive approach to the laws will be undertaken by the government and we will come back to Parliament very quickly after following the process of consultation,” he said.

According to sources in the IT Ministry, the government is aiming to bring the legislation in Parliament’s Winter Session. A senior official said that the new Bill would incorporate the broader ideas of data protection as recommended by the JCP, and would be in line with the Supreme Court’s landmark privacy judgment of 2017. Given the significant number of amendments suggested by the JCP, it was necessary to comprehensively redraw the contours of the proposed law, the official said.

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-sci-te...

As a side note: I don't know why AccessNow.org's blog post was upvoted. It's extremely light on details.

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#104

In case you are serious about understanding why it was pulled out and really care about the details for such an action, I highly recommend you check the Joint Committee on the Personal Data Protection report [1] the Press Release section where they released the 534 pages report on it. Gist of it is - the committee recommended major changes across the board in all sections of the act so the IT Ministry would rework th…

I glanced over [2] ( https://vidhilegalpolicy.in/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/JPC-P... ) => right at the start it mentions this:

The Committee observes that it is impossible to distinguish personal and non-personal data. Therefore...

That sounds to me like a crazy statement for a new law that was in the process of being created since years?

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any reputable Indian law/policy news sites or individuals who you (or anyone) might recommend following? To be fair I can't think of any specific sites like that I follow for US law/policy news, just a variety of people on Twitter.

India is a diverse country with diversity within both the federal level and the state level. I have listed a subset of sources I and friends of mine from Indian policy backgrounds (IAS, IPS, MHA, etc) tended to trust. This is not a complete list, and shows my own regional biases. Feel free to AMA me or discuss additional recommendations in this thread. I don't get much of an opportunity to discuss Social Sciences sin…

Caveats:

The Indian center is very different from the American center. Economically, the Indian center is closer to Bernie-Sanders than it is to Biden. The Indian left (academic and on the ground) is actually communist and the Indian right still tends to be fairly center-left (as far as the US goes) The social left-right dimension is its own thing, and does not map neatly onto similar intuitions in the west.

The last caveat is that Indian secularism is very different from western secularism.

_________

That being said, This is a good list.

> The Print

I am personally biased towards favoring 'The Print' more so than the other organizations. Shekhar Gupta leads an ideologically clear (socially liberal, economically liberal) media house, always quotes their sources and does well to separate reporting from opinion. I would not call it right leaning by any means.

> Caravan

I have mixed opinions on Caravan. At their best, they are great. But, they can vary between excellent left-leaning journalism to outright left-wing fear mongering. I'm sure you'll see some strong opinions thrown around about them, and both the positive and negative tend to be well deserved.

> Wire and OutlookIndia

I have a low opinion of both. I wouldn't go as far as to call them a rag, but I wouldn't defend them against those accusations either.

> Swarajya - but a strong source to understand BJP and Hinduvta politics from their perspective

Agreed. Won't go there for news, but serves a purpose.

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Indian MPs explicitly pledge to toe the party line?

Explicitly? No. At no point does a member sworn in as an MP have to then swear to affirm their party affiliation. In practice, however, the Anti-Defection Law deems anybody voting against the will of the party to have vacated their membership of the party, which can then be pursued to strip them of membership of the house.

Is it normal for MPs to speak out against the party line even while voting it?

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is a diverse country with diversity within both the federal level and the state level. I have listed a subset of sources I and friends of mine from Indian policy backgrounds (IAS, IPS, MHA, etc) tended to trust. This is not a complete list, and shows my own regional biases. Feel free to AMA me or discuss additional recommendations in this thread. I don't get much of an opportunity to discuss Social Sciences sin…

Caveats: The Indian center is very different from the American center. Economically, the Indian center is closer to Bernie-Sanders than it is to Biden. The Indian left (academic and on the ground) is actually communist and the Indian right still tends to be fairly center-left (as far as the US goes) The social left-right dimension is its own thing, and does not map neatly onto similar intuitions in the west. The last…

Glad you added that caveat to this thread!

A lot of Western commentators don't tend to realize that aspect of Indian politics, instead applying a federal American lens (though American politics is actually equally diverse as well).

To any Americans reading this thread, Indian politics is HEAVILY local party driven. BJP MPs from states like HP would have entirely different opinions or backgrounds from BJP MPs from a region like Purvanchal (Eastern UP). In additional, most elected officials in Indian politics don't really have party loyalty. They'll change parties at the drop of the hat (or start their own) if they feel their opportunity to climb up the political rungs are best served elsewhere. That is a MASSIVE reason the BJP/NDA+ won like a steamroller in 2019 - a number of up and coming INC politicians changed party affiliations because their upward potential was blocked by regional INC machines.

In addition, it is very common for regional political barons to split off from the national party and make their own regional party - this happened with the INC in West Bengal (Mamata Banerjee and the TMC), Uttar Pradesh (Mulayam Singh Yadav and the Samajwadi Party), Maharashtra (Bal Thackeray and the Shiv Sena - which itself split into 2 parties this week - and Tariq Anwar and the NCP) , and Andhra Pradesh (YSR Raja Reddy and the YSR Congress) to name a few states. Captain Amarinder Singh - the former Chief Minister (Indian equivalent of Governor) of Punjab - himself is rumored to be making a regional party in Punjab now as well after internal politicking in the INC forced him out of CMship.

That said, similar stuff will eventually happen to the BJP as well. I've heard rumblings at the grassroots level in Haryana, HP, and Jammu about discontent with local BJP acolytes and there is probably going to be a major shift in Indian politics over the next 10 years as a new generation of local parties form.

==========================

> The Print

Agree with you that they are not right leaning in any way. I labelled them as slightly center right due to their occasional support for certain pro-market reforms (ones that I do support by the way). Honestly, I probably could have called them centrist but the edit timer has run down on that comment.

> Wire and Outlook

I'm curious about your reasons for having a low opinion of them? I've had reservations about some opinions the Wire reports, but at least in the region my family is from they've been pretty even handed reporting on abuses of power that have occurred. W/ regards to Outlook I was debating whether to add them to this list, but I have read some quality articles from them on occasion.

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explicitly? No. At no point does a member sworn in as an MP have to then swear to affirm their party affiliation. In practice, however, the Anti-Defection Law deems anybody voting against the will of the party to have vacated their membership of the party, which can then be pursued to strip them of membership of the house.

Is it normal for MPs to speak out against the party line even while voting it?

Not at all. It's highly unusual for a politician to speak against the party line on a bill, if at all. The only time we ever see fracturing, if any, is around the elections, where dissatisfied members may break away or switch parties. It's not uncommon for people to switch allegiances if they were refused an election ticket as the party candidate, or for higher level politicians to form break away factions if refused the Chief Ministerial position, for example. The Anti-Defection Law allows breakaway factions only if at least 1/3rd leave en masse.

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#109
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caveats: The Indian center is very different from the American center. Economically, the Indian center is closer to Bernie-Sanders than it is to Biden. The Indian left (academic and on the ground) is actually communist and the Indian right still tends to be fairly center-left (as far as the US goes) The social left-right dimension is its own thing, and does not map neatly onto similar intuitions in the west. The last…

Glad you added that caveat to this thread! A lot of Western commentators don't tend to realize that aspect of Indian politics, instead applying a federal American lens (though American politics is actually equally diverse as well). To any Americans reading this thread, Indian politics is HEAVILY local party driven. BJP MPs from states like HP would have entirely different opinions or backgrounds from BJP MPs from a r…

This is golden. It's nice to see people add context to Indian politics on HN. All too often, even the most well-read American has a naïve understanding of Indian politics. You're doing God's work giving folks glimpses into the sheer difference, complexity and nuance of Indian politics.

> but the edit timer has run down on that comment

such is life.

> I'm curious about your reasons for having a low opinion of them?

I think part of it is because I only ever read them when someone tells me about how they mis-reported on something. So, it might be personal bias where I overtly hone-in on the mistakes they make. I don't read either OutlookIndia or TheWire enough to make strong claims about their caliber as journalism houses. But when I get linked to them, I make sure to get a 2nd opinion.

Re: Indian government withdraws Personal Data Protection Bill

#110
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you added that caveat to this thread! A lot of Western commentators don't tend to realize that aspect of Indian politics, instead applying a federal American lens (though American politics is actually equally diverse as well). To any Americans reading this thread, Indian politics is HEAVILY local party driven. BJP MPs from states like HP would have entirely different opinions or backgrounds from BJP MPs from a r…

This is golden. It's nice to see people add context to Indian politics on HN. All too often, even the most well-read American has a naïve understanding of Indian politics. You're doing God's work giving folks glimpses into the sheer difference, complexity and nuance of Indian politics. > but the edit timer has run down on that comment such is life. > I'm curious about your reasons for having a low opinion of them? I…

Haha thanks! To be fair, as someone who is Desi American, a lot of the incomplete reporting about India that happens in the Western newspapers is due to bad pay. The NYT pays reporters $12k a year/8.4lpa in Delhi NCR, while cable news channels like NDTV, Aaj Tak, etc would pay a similar level reporter around $14-17k/10-12 lpa while giving much more political power (and the opportunity to take cash for unbalanced reporting if they want). Ergo, all the good reporters either start their own new wave media orgs like The Print or The Wire, or they become acolytes for a party (all parties do this of course - ain't no saints in Indian politics, not even the Sadhus, Peers, Yogis, Maulvis, or Sants).
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