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Botspam apocalypse

memex.marginalia.nu

161–170 of 358 posts

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on your audience and regions you're most interested in. But if you're aiming for the EU, gcore labs may be interesting. Akamai is not bad, but a bit enterprisey - I don't think they even had an official api the last time I used them?

None of those are free, though.

No, but they also don't actively help protect pages organising SWATing. It's your choice who to do business with.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to require users to run javascript you should be able to make the server generate the timestamp.

How do you do that, without bots being able to circumvent the feature?

You could generate a CSRF token or something similar in a hidden filed based on a JWT token (yes I know) on the server side. The JWT token can either contain some timestamp after which it's valid or the time it was created.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#163
post #21

I wonder if proof-of-work would help. Suppose every form submission requires an expensive calculation, calibrated to take about 1 second on a typical modern computer/smartphone. For human users, this happens in the background, although it makes the website feel slower. But for bots, it dramatically limits how many submissions each botnet host can make to random websites.

I’m the co-founder of Friendly Captcha [0], we offer a proof of work-based captcha since two years or so. Happy to answer any questions.

A big part of what makes our captcha successful in fighting abuse is that we scale the difficulty of the proof-of-work puzzle based on the user’s previous behavior and other signals (e.g. minus points if their IP address is a known datacenter IP).

The nice thing about a scaling PoW setup is that it’s not all-or-nothing unlike other captcha’s. Most captcha’s can be solved by “most” humans, but that means that there is still some subset of all humans that you are excluding. In our case if we do get it wrong and wrongly think the user is a bot, the user may have to solve a puzzle for a while, but after that they are accepted nonetheless.

[0]: https://friendlycaptcha.com

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#164

In the 1980's, we kept anklebyters off dial-up BBSses with a simple technique: voice validation. To join the forum, you had to fill an application first, which included your real name and phone number. The sysop would give you a call for a quick chat, and then grant you access if you didn't seem like a twit. This would be entirely practical for some small-time operator trying to run a forum off residential broadband,…

"anklebyters"! I learned a useful new word today. Thanks.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#165
Really glad to see someone finally talking about this.

Does anyone know what's going on with that "Duke de Montosier" spam botnet? It accounts for more than half of the botspam attacks on my sites, and I can't find anyone talking about it online anywhere, except one tweet dating back to mid-2021. It's identifiable by several short phrases that it posts:

Duke de Montosier

for Countess Louise of Savoy

Testaru. Best known

And cryptic short posts that can assemble into creepy sequences:

Europe, and in Ancient Russia

Century to a kind of destruction:

Western Europe also formed

and was erased, and on cleaned

only a few survived

number of surviving European

55 thousand Greek, 30 thousand Armenian

Many of the IPs involved seemed to be in Russia, China and Hong Kong, though they're coming from all over (eg European & US VPNs, Tor exit nodes). From tracking the IPs on AbuseIPDB, the weird spam posts seem to be just one layer, while behind the scenes it also attempts SMTP Auth and IMAP attacks on the server.

I'm eager to know more if anyone knows, and especially if anyone is trying to shut this thing down. But I can't find anyone even talking about it. (Maybe there's a reason for that?)

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#166

It's annoying for sure. I deal with abuse at a large scale. I'd recommend: - Rate-limit everything, absolutely everything. Set sane limits. - Rate-limit POST requests harder. Preferably dynamically based on geoip. - Rate-limit login and comment POST requests even harder. Ban IPs that exceed the amount. - Require TLS. Drop TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1. Bots certainly break. - Require SNI. Do not reply without SNI (nginx has 44…

In other words, make your website unusable for people who have to connect through VPNs or public networks, difficult for anyone without a stable Western broadband connection, and unpleasant for everyone else.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, of course, you have cloudflare and recaptcha, which are free and very efficient, as the author say. Recaptcha has been almost useless, in my experience. If you read the spam logs, you'll quickly learn about the spam software they (claim to) use to bypass Recaptcha, because that's what they end up promoting. I started tagging in logs if Recaptcha had validated on messges, and sure enough these spam posts had…

Those are very specific bots, recaptch will stop a lot of casual ones. Most of them in fact.

That really hasn't been my experience, perhaps I'm just getting hit more by the sophisticated bots than the naive ones. I'm glad that it works for some people.

Recaptcha was also filtering out some legit humans (I logged all posts regardless of captcha status to be reviewed later), so it just wasn't worth reducing the user experience when the captcha bot detection rate was so low.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#168

I run a popular blog and confirm that spam is a massive issue. I am trying to keep the independent web alive with an old-school commenting system because it helps readers and myself improve outdated posts. My domain is over 20+ years old and attracts all sorts of threats, including monthly DDoS and daily spam. Using Cloudflare solved all of these problems. Next, you need to add firewall rules inside Cloudflare WAF to…

Putting everything 'behind Cloudflare' isn't a panacea. By merely living outside the West, I'm getting Geo blocked from 'normal' news sites and constantly having to solve hCAPTCHAs to solve riddles for some AI algo without compensation. It's such a burden and I find myself giving up pretty often. GeoIP blocking is what prevented me from getting my voter information out of my last domicile. Running everything through…

I agree with you. But, what solution do you propose for independent solo developers or people who wish to run a blog instead of using FB, Twitter and co to create content? Cloudflare may not be perfect, but it prevented me from shutting down my solo operation without putting a massive cost burden on me. When the first time DDoS hit, I had to beg one of those large cloud companies to reduce bandwidth costs. It took them forever to forgive that abuse and price, which was not my fault, and I was given a strong warning not to repeat such an issue again. There is no easy solution to this problem. At least with Cloudflare, people like me can stay online, but it does cause a problem for a bad IP reputation.

TL;DR: I won't expose any of my projects or API directly these days due to spam, ddos and other abuse.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think there is a good solution besides a deep anti-bot expertise whithin the primary website development team But there is a solution: the website team should get their act together and remove the "first come first served" aspect altogether. Do you, citizen, want to register? Cool - leave your e-mail and we'll call you. Is the service optional? Then we'll pick at random from the pool of applicants and e-mai…

>Then we'll pick at random from the pool of applicants and e-mail them This is where having your own email domain with unlimited accounts is useful.

The thought did cross my mind, which is why I'd also ask for an ID or equivalent. If you don't show up with that specific ID on the day of your appointment, you lose the appointment. And you can use that ID number to deduplicate requests.

If you don't do that, I 100% agree with you - scalpers could then register with hundreds of accounts for reselling, and we would be back where we started.

Re: Botspam apocalypse

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of the chaos that ensued in my state in the early days of Covid-19 vaccination when they were still having centralized systems where the elderly could book an appointment. Of course, they had way more demand than supply but still insisted on First Come, First Served, so you ended up with every member of the extended family being asked to try and book a slot, quickly overwhelming their booking systems.…

In some miracle of competence my district alotted shots by decreasing age limit so that it were no "shortage" or lagfest for those eligible in the booking system.

We have all the data about everyone in the registers, but god forbid we use them to lower friction in case of emergencies! Good to hear that some got it right.
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