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Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

themanual.com

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Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#161

Post by bmelton »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #136
atestu wrote: post #96

Based on all other comments I have an unpopular opinion: I think this is fine. If 10 people want to buy 1 car, how do you choose which person gets it? You raise the price until there's only 1 person. How else would you do it?

how about you sell it at the listed price to the first who comes in to sign the contract? Maybe those who were too late will come back and be quicker to decide next time, because they think you are fair. If you make it all about who has more money, they'll go to another dealer. There's no shortage of them. Imagine if any store did that: you go to an Apple store to buy a new iPhone, there are 20 people in front of you…

Hypothetically, if I were your competitor and you adopted this policy, what would stop me stationing an employee with purchasing power at your door and just being the first one to buy every car as it comes into your lot, taking it home and then marking it up to the actual market rate?

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#162

Post by [deleted] »

sleepdreamy wrote: post #141
jeromegv wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern is not that. Yes increase price if demand is high and supply is low. However, they play those games where they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees when you show up to purchase. So it makes shopping around very hard, you can’t compare between 2 dealerships as even calling them won’t give you that info. It’s predatory and anti consumer.

This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When…

[deleted]

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#163

Post by peoplefromibiza »

bmelton wrote: post #161
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about you sell it at the listed price to the first who comes in to sign the contract? Maybe those who were too late will come back and be quicker to decide next time, because they think you are fair. If you make it all about who has more money, they'll go to another dealer. There's no shortage of them. Imagine if any store did that: you go to an Apple store to buy a new iPhone, there are 20 people in front of you…

Hypothetically, if I were your competitor and you adopted this policy, what would stop me stationing an employee with purchasing power at your door and just being the first one to buy every car as it comes into your lot, taking it home and then marking it up to the actual market rate?

why should I care? Hypothetically that would make me rich in a very short time span and I could afford to buy and resell more expensive cars or buy at volume and make better deals.

You would be basically financing my business, at zero interest rate, while I also make a profit on the money you give me.

You do realize that profit is "the excess of returns over expenditure"? it's not given that you are making more money than me (I could easily have an higher markup), but for sure I'm having less problems than you finding customers!

Thank you for doing it.

I got more cars coming, see you on Monday!

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#164

Post by peoplefromibiza »

selectodude wrote: post #156
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how about you sell it at the listed price to the first who comes in to sign the contract? Maybe those who were too late will come back and be quicker to decide next time, because they think you are fair. If you make it all about who has more money, they'll go to another dealer. There's no shortage of them. Imagine if any store did that: you go to an Apple store to buy a new iPhone, there are 20 people in front of you…

Plenty of people are, hence the markups on new devices immediately after launch on eBay.

they are not overspending anyone, they are simply trading their time to be first in line, while I buy it from my comfy chair at home at the price listed on the website.

and they also need to hope there are enough stupid people on the internet to buy at a markup something sold in the hundred of millions of pieces,one indistinguishable from the other.

more proof that an honest business can serve society better than scammers.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#165

Post by brycewray »

Bought my latest vehicle just before COVID lockdown (i.e., before I had a clue that my commuting days were over) and, thus, also well before Supply Chain Meltdown. Have rued that purchase ever since on the theory of "Geez, it turned out that I really didn't need this vehicle so badly"; but, after seeing these developments and remembering that I was able to get the price down a few thousand from MSRP, I'm thinking I may have come out ahead, after all.

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#166

Post by mox1 »

sleepdreamy wrote: post #141
jeromegv wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concern is not that. Yes increase price if demand is high and supply is low. However, they play those games where they advertise one price but actually have tons of mandated fees when you show up to purchase. So it makes shopping around very hard, you can’t compare between 2 dealerships as even calling them won’t give you that info. It’s predatory and anti consumer.

This is literally the process of purchasing a vehicle in 2022. I needed a car (My old one had broken down after 9 years of service) Advertised price was 24,500. I walked out totaling 30,000 after all the bullshit and that was with a 4000 downpayment. I left an honest review on Google Reviews about how misleading and unhappy I was with that dealer in particulars process but I loved the car so I just sucked it up. When…

But you still bought the car!!!

That's the entire point of these crappy business practices. At the end of the day, you paid. Thus they continue doing the same thing.

If you really wanted this to change, don't reward the bad business practices.

(Side note: This is a common topic on reddit /askcarsales. Honest dealers are basically forced to do some of these things. The shady dealers advertise lower prices, but lots of fees. So uninformed consumers show up at good dealer and say "Look ShadyDealer has this exact car for $5,000 less! GoodDealer tries to explain, consumer gets mad, etc. etc.)

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#167

Post by rdtwo »

gkanai wrote: post #35

If this downturn really deepens into a true recession (however it is defined) won't new vehicle markups go away naturally as fewer customers will be buying new cars? Isn't Markups a business that only is relevant during an inflated economy?

No, if there is no oversupply it doesn’t matter how good or bad the economy is. I think right now cars are being built at like 70% of normal rate so it would take a sharp and prolonged recession to dip below demand and also take up the excess demand that’s accumulated because of low production for the last 2-3 years

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#168

Post by rdtwo »

ehvatum wrote: post #42
tmpz22 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience was that sites like carmax and vroom had significantly higher mark ups then dealerships and lots of complaints that their “360 inspection” had terrible quality control problems and frequently shipped bad cars. I can see these sites working for very specific models and trims but overall bad. Honestly it’s all bad unless you get lucky it feels like.

I recommend Manheim Auctions, if you can get access.

Yeah dealers only auction

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#169

Post by rdtwo »

sokoloff wrote: post #88
TreyGuy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crowd sourcing the data is the only way to uncover the real pricing that happens behind the scenes 3 hours into a dealership trip to buy that new car once you finally sit down at the finance guys office. It happened to me and it's happening in crazy high numbers of interactions. The prices listed online or initially viewed then get bludgeoned by "the mandatory addon and adm" bat once you burned half a day at the deal…

Start with “I have 60 minutes to conclude this deal [90 if for some reason you need to test drive it]” and start packing up your things at the 55 minute mark. If you spend 3 hours at a dealer after you’ve identified a single car you’re interested in , part of that is on you. Yes, I’ve walked out twice. One dealer rescued the deal; the other lost the sale to a dealer about 20 miles away.

Doesn’t work when someone else will happily buy it

Re: Nonprofit markups.org is exposing the most egregious new car prices

#170

Post by tptacek »

yellowapple wrote: post #86
brigade wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vroom and Carvana are shit with mechanical inspections/repairs, but CarMax should be fine; unlike Vroom/Carvana their in-house mechanics operate basically identically to the service center of other dealerships. Also they actually look and drive trade-ins before making an offer. CarMax should be a little bit more expensive because you're paying for a 30-day return policy and 90-day warranty even if they're not itemize…

> Also they actually look and drive trade-ins before making an offer. Do they? I brought in a prospective trade-in that had a misfiring cylinder (and thus a perpetually-blinking CEL and a very rough idle) and they were still willing to give me close to the top of the Blue Book range for it.

Recently, or years ago? The market is definitely fucky right now.
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