Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West? • Hacker News Board

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#341

Post by vidarh » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 6:43 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #303

vidarh wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average housing is mediated by where people want to live and preferences around the value of space. I could move elsewhere in the UK and have 5x the space for the same price, or I could buy a castle in France. But while that castle might be tempting for retirement, I value living close to the centre of London more than I value the extra space.

Yes, supply and demand. And there's considerably more 'supply' of land in the US. Homes are considerably less expensive in comparable relative terms. So is energy. So is food. So those are some very primary inputs into the cost of living, which means we live 'expansively' in North America. In Europe people are super concerned about 'cutting back' that mentality hasn't quite hit in North America. I suggest Americans w…

My point is that supply and demand is heavily affected by priorities, and so you need to account for people's priorities if you want to make assumptions about what the difference in size means.

There is plenty of affordable land in Europe, but instead we're seeing even people who do not need to move to more expensive cities for work still do so because we willingly choose smaller houses.

That is not to say that there aren't plenty of people who would like more space, but I've personally worked with people who "wanted" more space, but only if they didn't have to move even one fare zone on public transport further out, because they liked to be dead centre of a major metropolis.

My example of a French castle was not random - I'm considering retiring to France eventually, and for the cost of my house in London, I can literally buy a castle 10x the size of my house, on huge grounds.

Yet today I would not swap my house for a castle even though I work 100% remote and could do so if it suited my lifestyle, because my location currently matters more to me than more space.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

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Post by fmajid » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 6:55 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #335

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there is a frustrating tendency to get into deflecting blame and pointing at different things, the situation with water is perhaps not a great example. If you focus on household water usage, you'll have many people oppose your effort because they don't want to take shorter showers or buy a new washing machine. If you point out that some corporation is paying pennies to drain an aquifer to grow a water-intensi…

This works both ways. If you mandate low flow (eg 6l/minute, half regular showers) via building code, and strengthen water efficiency standards for appliances, make company licensing factor in energy and water usage, and in tougher times, enforce hosepipe and sprinkler bans, private pools, etc... then it makes it a lot easier to lean on agri. There might be a strong enough argument for prioritising agriculture, but t…

The problem is not agriculture per se, but the inefficient way it uses water due to the perverse incentives of California's water rights system. They could get the same output for way less water using drip irrigation, but that costs more than simply flooding with water. The first step is to abolish senior rights, the second is to remove subsidies so all users pay the same rate at actual cost.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

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Post by gsk22 » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 9:00 PM UTC

colineartheta wrote: post #34

gsk22 wrote: post #20

Quoted post unavailable.

Would you care to elaborate? It seems awfully threatening.

All I meant is the only way we would allow our water to be taken to feed unsustainable growth in the West is if it was taken by force.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

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Post by sidewndr46 » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

dawnerd wrote: post #317

sidewndr46 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As numerous other commenters have mentioned here, even a total ban on residential water use would not make a difference to the water issue in the American West. There simply is not enough residential usage to matter.

I realize that but telling people they have to let their grass die while also dumping perfectly clean reclaimed water to the ocean is a bit silly.

What are you referring to?

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

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Post by matt-attack » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #280

cwt137 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the biggest challenge would be the right of way and litigation I totally agree. I live in SoCal and there are some infrastructure projects that took forever (ie creating the I105 and finish connecting the I210), or will probably never get completed (ie. finish connecting the I710 and California High Speed Rail) all because of right of way issues and lots of law suits.

The I710 extension has been officially dead for almost a decade - CalTrans has probably finished selling off all the property they bought by now. I grew up in South Pasadena, the little 25k pop town that killed it, and it was a big deal because tons of money finally became available to repair our shitty roads and stop the hemorrhaging of the school district.

I always thought the schools were supposed to be awesome in South Pas. No?

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#346

Post by akiselev » Wed, Aug 03, 2022, 1:29 AM UTC

matt-attack wrote: post #345

akiselev wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The I710 extension has been officially dead for almost a decade - CalTrans has probably finished selling off all the property they bought by now. I grew up in South Pasadena, the little 25k pop town that killed it, and it was a big deal because tons of money finally became available to repair our shitty roads and stop the hemorrhaging of the school district.

I always thought the schools were supposed to be awesome in South Pas. No?

Yes and no. The middle/high school had more great teachers than I can remember and many of the students came from families that placed great importance on education but the legal battle to stop the I710 extension was a disaster for the city budget. My freshman year in high school we didn't even have a history class and by sophomore year the elementary schools completely cut their arts and music programs as part of a $3 million district budget cut. Can you imagine elementary school without art!? Meanwhile, the booster club raised $4 million to replace the grass with fake turf on the football and baseball fields (also a disaster that cost the school money down the road).

Granted, this was during the great financial crisis so they may be doing better now.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

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Post by edmcnulty101 » Wed, Aug 03, 2022, 3:58 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #307

edmcnulty101 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't build more in deserts. It sounds crazy that we're even talking about this.

Don't build on coasts susceptible to hurricanes and sea level rise, don't build in the north susceptible to mega blizzards, and don't build in the Midwest susceptible to tornados. Problem solved/s

hurricanes are temporary. a desert is forever.

those are not comparable.

You might as well compare Chernobyl to a place that has bad restaurants.

they're exactly the same.thing!