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What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

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Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#271

Post by winternett »

granshaw wrote: post #213
winternett wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that many of the most "prestigious" places to work do a wildly fake process aligned with academia to recruit employees. It creates the illusion that jobs are coveted... They present you with challenges and questions over a long period of time which are actually directly tied to their own internal problem solving if you are a senior level hire as well (free work), and they catalogue personal info and data…

Wait, small/mid contracting companies (aka agencies) paying more than Google? Are you based in the US? Care sharing the company name(s)?

You're focused on a different angle than on what I posted.

There are so many factors that affect compensation for each individual employee, comparison of pay is useless. Geographical region also has big bearing on the discussion, and it really makes no sense to compare compensation online with a public audience in that manner. I won't discuss specific details and employers online for obvious reasons.

I reside on the East Coast, West Coast is a completely different labor market, and the cost of living in silicon valley is higher, another reason why comparison is futile. Jobs also rely on skill and experience, to which each person ranks differently, so individual salary comparison online is ultimately not accurate, why even try?

That being said, 6 months of work at $200k or 1 year of work at $100k is the same amount of money, but one job costs the employee a lot more time out of their life. Work is meant to supplement our lives, not the other way around. We're either marketable as employees or not, small companies that want to compete and grow within a workspace often pay more for highly skilled employees for shorter work terms overall, because they have vital work to do in order to be competitive...

Sure small and medium (non-public) companies don't offer RSUs and other things that large (FAANG) companies do, but if you really take a look at how long it takes to be vested in those huge companies, and how most people don't last long enough to vest, and how much big company culture changes employees to the point that when they're laid off or quit after bad experiences they suffer in readjusting to the regular working world... The compensation can be a lot better in small/medium sized companies.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#272

Post by willcipriano »

forgingahead wrote: post #239
niall00c wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When your neighbor is out of work its a recession. When you are out of work its a depression" - said someone

When asset prices increase quickly, everything is fine, as the wealthy are benefitting. When wages increase though, that's inflation and we must tamp down hard on it!

This is the federal reserves stated position.

https://mronline.org/2022/05/26/u-s-federal-reserve-says-its...

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#274

Post by cmrdporcupine »

itstomkent wrote: post #240
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean, I came to Google through an acquisition (of an adtech company) and it was pretty clear to me that the goal of the whole process was a) make your company go away and stop your customers from using you instead of us and b) get as much of your talent out of the job market as possible. They totally didn't care about our product or the productivity of the employees they brought in. They let us sit and twiddle…

It's kind of insane that on the one hand we have folks playing lip service to "anyone can learn to code" and on the other, decent developers being so rare that to hire one you need to offer compensation equal to winning a minor lottery for just 2-4 years worth of work. I wonder how much more software would get written if it didn't cost $250-500K/yr for a single developer.

Hire Canadians. Currency conversion advantage. Same time zones. Same language. Mostly same culture. Very well educated. Cheaper health care benefits. And $150k USD is a generous compensation level, and $250USD is about what a Canadian Googler @ L4 gets paid. $100-$125k USD gets you reasonable non-senior talent.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#275

Post by lupire »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #104

The people I know who are still inside (Google) seem optimistic that maybe the company is taking a pause to deal with some of its bureaucracy and internal politics issues and with people's complaints about perf. I suppose that's good. From my perspective: They've got way too many people doing a lot of meh work and feeling really ... important about it. And it's on the whole asphyxiating the industry.

Why would that relate to hiring at all? Hiring is simply a costs problem. The other stuff should be addressed or ignored mutually regardless.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#276

Post by ransom1538 »

itstomkent wrote: post #240
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean, I came to Google through an acquisition (of an adtech company) and it was pretty clear to me that the goal of the whole process was a) make your company go away and stop your customers from using you instead of us and b) get as much of your talent out of the job market as possible. They totally didn't care about our product or the productivity of the employees they brought in. They let us sit and twiddle…

It's kind of insane that on the one hand we have folks playing lip service to "anyone can learn to code" and on the other, decent developers being so rare that to hire one you need to offer compensation equal to winning a minor lottery for just 2-4 years worth of work. I wonder how much more software would get written if it didn't cost $250-500K/yr for a single developer.

You literally can go on indeed.com and check for "$250-500K/yr for a single developer". It. Does. Not. Exist. Yes there are a few at FAANG that do make this, but this isn't the current market.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#277

Post by time_to_smile »

yuan43 wrote: post #139

> As several of these statements blatantly contradict one another, I went back to the data and ran the same sanity check that I did with Facebook above. In other words, what if Google is using the hiring freeze as a smoke screen and only continuing with the strongest candidates, while keeping the rest on the bench? An actual hiring freeze sends a very strong negative signal to employees and investors. To employees it…

> the business cycle

Just an aside, that this rebranding of Marx's theory of crisis never fails to get a chuckle out of me.

In mainstream economics is presented as some magical property of the way economies work, where Marx specifically predicts cyclically economic crisis created by contradictions inherent in the structure of capitalism, the periodically build to a tipping point leading to crisis and ultimately the resolution of these contradictions.

For Marx, these crises ultimately culminate in the unavoidable collapse of capitalism. Which is where the fundamental drive to find alternatives to capitalism comes from for Marx, not because it is an ethically questionable system, but because it is one fundamentally headed towards its own destruction.

But "business cycle" sounds much better, and leaves off all that spooky "systemic problem" stuff.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#278

Post by xyzzyz »

kahnclusions wrote: post #259
xyzzyz wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about France, but in Poland, if you’re sending invoices to an entity that has no presence in Poland, is not incorporated there, has no offices etc, it can hardly be legally seen to be a legal “employment” relationship. But, assuming the situation above, even if it is illegal (which I strongly doubt), so what? What can the system do here to you? Will it jail you or fine you, or otherwise stop you, the worker,…

What could happen to the company: is that the Polish government or courts could deem the foreign company to be illegally operating in Poland (by virtue of employing you through a hidden contract), and require the company to set up a local legal entity, make corporate filings, pay taxes, etc. Or else pay fines. Or else get banned from operating in your country. You may also be entitled to rights under local employment…

> require the company to set up a local legal entity, make corporate filings, pay taxes. Or else pay fines.

They can require it all they want, but if the company has no presence in Poland, they cannot actually make them do so.

> Or else get banned from operating in your country

Which is fine with many companies.

> You may also be entitled to rights under local employment laws regardless of what it says in your contract, which could also lead to the company being fined or banned.

Sure, but entitlement under local employment law is worthless against company in a different jurisdiction.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#279

Post by lupire »

_gabe_ wrote: post #136
phailhaus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We entered a technical recession by the "two quarters of contracting GDP" rule of thumb, but labor numbers are still strong and that second quarter contracted less than the first [1], which is not what we've usually seen when entering a recession. [2] [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-...

I've never understood how strong labor numbers negate a recession. Like sure your money is worth less because of all the inflation, and your COL keeps increasing but your wages remain the same, but hey we have lots of people working. Maybe somebody smarter than me can explain how these two correlate lol.

Recession refers to production, not who profits. You getting paid less doesn't make a recession, it makes a different problem.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#280

Post by Balgair »

jtefera wrote: post #269
Balgair wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to make sure I'm on the right page here: PM = Project Manager. Projects can range from something like all of Project Loon down to some one small little thing. Project managers can manage many people (and other managers) down to only one other person. Project managers are given access to budgets, including hiring and project budgeting. The role is somewhat ambiguous, but you are definitely in the 'Management' s…

PM at Google is normally Product Manager. Project Managers are called Program Managers (PgM). Most program managers at Google do not manage anyone.

Yes, thank you. Big difference in my understanding there.
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