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What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

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Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#131

Post by cmrdporcupine »

marcinzm wrote: post #130
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #104

The people I know who are still inside (Google) seem optimistic that maybe the company is taking a pause to deal with some of its bureaucracy and internal politics issues and with people's complaints about perf. I suppose that's good. From my perspective: They've got way too many people doing a lot of meh work and feeling really ... important about it. And it's on the whole asphyxiating the industry.

If someone thinks Google can even scratch any of those issues in two weeks then you've really been drinking some Google kool aid. edit: Increased clarity.

Yeah, nah, obv I don't think that. I quit.

But maybe you mean a hypothetical "you" of other people still working there. Obviously it's a mix, but I suspect on the whole most people are smart enough to see that these kinds of things are unlikely to accomplish much.

But they're also likely happy that upper management is finally acknowledging these dysfunctions.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#132

Post by andsoitis »

anonymoushn wrote: post #117
vitus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are indeed still conducting interviews (I had one just on Friday). Whether that transfers to actual offers extended during this time, I have no idea. What I can say we are absolutely not doing at this time is rescinding offers, even for new grads. There certainly have been some shifts over the past year or two to prioritize growth in cheaper markets (for lack of a better term) -- one manager I talked to mentioned…

Are Googlers in general okay with the idea that their contributions are worth 1/4 as much if they live in Warsaw?

> contributions are worth 1/4 as much if they live in Warsaw?

Under the "free market", compensation isn't some objective number etched into a tablet somewhere in the universe. Instead, it is the result of market forces.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#133

Post by wrzuteczka »

Nextgrid wrote: post #80
badpun wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, native Polish. Never really lived outside of Poland.

If you don't mind me asking, what's your legal setup and way of landing US contracts? Most I've seen require a US-based legal entity (which is the tricky bit I can't figure out, as to the best of my knowledge there's no way to set one up without having existing ties/citizenship in the US).

The "employee" creates a single-person company in Poland (or any other EU country, I guess) and sends invoices monthly. Honestly, it's trivial to set up. I'd say it's even easier than the standard employment process in the EU.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#134

Post by [deleted] »

klipt wrote: post #115
Dave3of5 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My hunch is that these companies are cargo-culting their strategies Yes most of these tech companies are the same. Their strategy is based off what other successful companies are doing. Also they want shareholders / investors to be on board. @paulg himself started this run with an email telling investors and companies to turtle up and stop hiring. The whole thing has become a self perpetuating loop. Companies also…

> @paulg himself started this run No the fed started it by raising rates with the explicit goal of triggering a hiring freeze to chill the economy and reduce inflation: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-the-fed-wants-corporate-a... Everything else is just a consequence of the fed deploying its one big lever.

[deleted]

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#135

Post by jfoster »

phailhaus wrote: post #123
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #119

The Google internal propaganda game must be crazy strong if the actual employees are believing random management explanations designed to keep people from panicking. The US just formally entered a recession, in within a week of the economic turmoil multiple companies freeze hiring...

We entered a technical recession by the "two quarters of contracting GDP" rule of thumb, but labor numbers are still strong and that second quarter contracted less than the first [1], which is not what we've usually seen when entering a recession. [2] [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-...

If companies are doing hiring freezes and layoffs, will the labor numbers remain strong?

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#136

Post by _gabe_ »

phailhaus wrote: post #123
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #119

The Google internal propaganda game must be crazy strong if the actual employees are believing random management explanations designed to keep people from panicking. The US just formally entered a recession, in within a week of the economic turmoil multiple companies freeze hiring...

We entered a technical recession by the "two quarters of contracting GDP" rule of thumb, but labor numbers are still strong and that second quarter contracted less than the first [1], which is not what we've usually seen when entering a recession. [2] [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-...

I've never understood how strong labor numbers negate a recession. Like sure your money is worth less because of all the inflation, and your COL keeps increasing but your wages remain the same, but hey we have lots of people working.

Maybe somebody smarter than me can explain how these two correlate lol.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#137

Post by acomjean »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #131
marcinzm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone thinks Google can even scratch any of those issues in two weeks then you've really been drinking some Google kool aid. edit: Increased clarity.

Yeah, nah, obv I don't think that. I quit. But maybe you mean a hypothetical "you" of other people still working there. Obviously it's a mix, but I suspect on the whole most people are smart enough to see that these kinds of things are unlikely to accomplish much. But they're also likely happy that upper management is finally acknowledging these dysfunctions.

When I was just a coder at a fortune 500 company, I was voluntold to be on a "Morale Committee". Not much came of it (one meeting with about 20 of us, they had an ice cream social, because people like ice cream and the work environment was very siloed people weren't interacting). It didn't do much, but employees took notice that management realized morale was low. The round of layoffs that came soon after overshadowed that however.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#138

Post by lotsofpulp »

_gabe_ wrote: post #136
phailhaus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We entered a technical recession by the "two quarters of contracting GDP" rule of thumb, but labor numbers are still strong and that second quarter contracted less than the first [1], which is not what we've usually seen when entering a recession. [2] [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-...

I've never understood how strong labor numbers negate a recession. Like sure your money is worth less because of all the inflation, and your COL keeps increasing but your wages remain the same, but hey we have lots of people working. Maybe somebody smarter than me can explain how these two correlate lol.

Strong labor numbers means wages would be increasing. Perhaps not for all income deciles, but at least the bottom ones (which is a good thing in my opinion since it helps close the income/wealth gap).

What would be an issue is the labor participation rate decreasing, which it is, but it may be unavoidable due to things like aging demographics. That means fewer workers supporting non workers, and hence less supply of labor to be distributed amongst everyone (assuming it is not offset by gains in automation).

I think this will be the government’s real problem, as there is no quick fix other than opening the immigration doors.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#139

Post by yuan43 »

> As several of these statements blatantly contradict one another, I went back to the data and ran the same sanity check that I did with Facebook above. In other words, what if Google is using the hiring freeze as a smoke screen and only continuing with the strongest candidates, while keeping the rest on the bench?

An actual hiring freeze sends a very strong negative signal to employees and investors. To employees it says "the ship is sinking." Layoffs are right around the corner and that is absolute poison to morale. To investors it says "technical or not, we've hit a recession." Brace yourselves for impact. Google and Facebook are both advertising companies, so they are tightly coupled to the business cycle. When business spending starts to falter, they'll feel it first. And they have.

So it's not surprising that the companies themselves are far from clear about this, sending mixed messages. I expect them to continue to do so for as long as they possibly can.

The bubble has inflated so far for so long, I get the sense that even among cynical young employees and "investors" there's a sense of permanence in the positions of both companies. The thing is, those with fewer than 10 years experience have never seen the ferocity of the other side of the business cycle. When it turns, that mofo turns. Those in top management positions have seen it, and they're going to do everything in their ability to deny and evade it.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#140

Post by haliskerbas »

taormina wrote: post #113
andsoitis wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> blaming their poor performance on this downturn Do you think their poor performance is primarily due to something other than this downturn?

Over a decade of ignoring their customers and riding on their laurels probably doesn’t help. But don’t worry, everything is COVID’s fault.

Advertisers are usually the customers and they are listened to very well at most of these places.
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