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What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

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Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#171
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this makes sense, what would be the incentive to hire there if wages were the same?

If you're struggling to find talent anywhere, why not hire in Poland? As a Polish engineer, we all know that companies are struggling to hire anyone . If you think you can hire a local instead of me for the same money, good luck. From my perspective, if I'm delivering the same value as someone from another country I should not be paid less. My cost of living is my own business, whether it's the lease on a car, the nu…

I’ve worked with a Polish dev team (in Wrocław). They were really great. However, for the same price I’d much rather work with local people. The Polish people we worked with came to California for months at a time. Being in the same time zone and room was really helpful.

Their English was generally good, and what they lacked in spoken English was usually made up for in good written documentation. But the time zone means remote work not as valuable (same goes for our English colleagues).

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#172
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We entered a technical recession by the "two quarters of contracting GDP" rule of thumb, but labor numbers are still strong and that second quarter contracted less than the first [1], which is not what we've usually seen when entering a recession. [2] [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-...

I've never understood how strong labor numbers negate a recession. Like sure your money is worth less because of all the inflation, and your COL keeps increasing but your wages remain the same, but hey we have lots of people working. Maybe somebody smarter than me can explain how these two correlate lol.

"When your neighbor is out of work its a recession. When you are out of work its a depression" - said someone

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#173
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We entered a technical recession by the "two quarters of contracting GDP" rule of thumb, but labor numbers are still strong and that second quarter contracted less than the first [1], which is not what we've usually seen when entering a recession. [2] [1] https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-... [2] https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/gdp-...

I've never understood how strong labor numbers negate a recession. Like sure your money is worth less because of all the inflation, and your COL keeps increasing but your wages remain the same, but hey we have lots of people working. Maybe somebody smarter than me can explain how these two correlate lol.

Demand-driven recession means there is insufficient demand which leads to decreased production and a level of slack in economy (real GDP lower than potential GDP), while unemployment is a manifestation of such slack.

If you have decline in GDP, but no unemployment, it may be due to supply issues, increase in friction and other factors (i.e. decline also of potential GDP).

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#174
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about real wages, are they also increasing, or only nominal ones do?

Strong labor numbers would necessitate real wage increases, otherwise I do not see how it could be classified as strong labor numbers. But it can be negative for higher income groups and positive for low income groups simultaneously.

In fact, you are incorrect. Real wages have decreased YoY. Anything can be classified by “strong labor numbers” by people who are trying to deceive you. Remember this next time you turn the TV on or open a newspaper.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#175
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong labor numbers would necessitate real wage increases, otherwise I do not see how it could be classified as strong labor numbers. But it can be negative for higher income groups and positive for low income groups simultaneously.

In fact, you are incorrect. Real wages have decreased YoY. Anything can be classified by “strong labor numbers” by people who are trying to deceive you. Remember this next time you turn the TV on or open a newspaper.

[deleted]

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#176
post #110
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of makes sense to keep people in the pipeline as it were. If you shut down the whole apparatus, you have to spin it back up when hiring is unfrozen. But if you keep the machine running, you're ready to hire the instant you can. For them that is. Sucks for you and me.

At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is availabl…

I've noticed that many of the most "prestigious" places to work do a wildly fake process aligned with academia to recruit employees. It creates the illusion that jobs are coveted... They present you with challenges and questions over a long period of time which are actually directly tied to their own internal problem solving if you are a senior level hire as well (free work), and they catalogue personal info and data from you interview to build an internal profile on you that is used in God knows how many ways...

They also subject you to high-school level team picking, which is deeply rooted in internal/company politics and an additional dynamic of company bias and it all enables the company orphan you easily if they find you don't submit to being overworked easily and complying with the deep team culture that each company evangelizes.

People are pressured now more than ever to adopt rules of conduct that encroach upon and threaten their individuality now more than ever by large companies.. Even when you log on to apps like TikTok and Instagram. Your individuality and experience are often thrown out in working environments so that you become a cog in the wheel, and more easily replaceable for these companies, not so that you can one day grow to be a CEO or Exec, and even still, those types of positions are often reserved for others who can fail multiple times and not get fired, while if you fail on the months long hiring process, you'll never survive.

On the inverse, I have been hired by smaller and medium sized contracting companies for much better salaries, and they often hire within days or weeks. I have very little patience for dragged out hiring and onboarding processes now. I work efficiently, do a good job, respect everyone's individuality and culture, and then go home to enjoy my life. I only work at companies there that is the culture. Luckily, if the market is screwed up or too hostile, I just work on my own ventures, it took 20 years of suffering through hostile corporate cultures and attempted indoctrination to get to this point where I have the choice.

None of the large corporations I've worker for called to check on me since our breakups, but most of them would likely rehire me if I re-applied... Not being arrogant, but emphasizing that the internal rules are frequently bent to serve the needs of delivery...

The people that get chewed up worst by the machine often have the lowest technical skills and ability, experience, and self esteem. I don't put any company on a pedestal; I just work efficiently and effectively with integrity, constantly learn (well aligned) stuff that works to get the job done, rely heavily on my prior experience, fight to keep solutions simple, and adapt constantly to efficiently meet goals... Company "culture workshops" and even colleges will never teach you that.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#177
post #35
post #28

Freeze? Both me and my friend from a previous project were recently approached by G's recruiters in Poland. I wasn't pursuing new roles at the time, but my friend figured he'd try and found that the recruiter's calendar was filled up to the brim. He asked what's going on and she replied that she has KPI to fulfill and this is the result. He followed up with a question about compensation and got a number which was...…

I was approached by both companies in Germany recently too, freeze doesn't mean full stop, just tightening it.

I do not know if they are still hiring or not, but to me a hiring freeze means exactly that: a full stop.

P.S. If a police shouts "freeze" I will fully stop :)

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#178
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inevitable. Working 2 hours a day while getting paid 300K+ is unsustainable. Most of the Googlers I know have been spending 20% of their time on Google and 80% on side projects for the past year now.

Working 2 hours a day while getting paid 300K+ is unsustainable. That's just not true though. If you can generate $50m of revenue by working 2 hours a day then you're brilliant at your job, and demanding you work more hours is idiotic. Put simply, there is no function that converts "salary / hours" into any useful measure of a person's output.

oof, peak programmer arrogance.

Re: What’s going on with Google and Facebook hiring freezes?

#179

Google has always recruited and interviewed independently of whether they actually have roles open that make sense for you. Earlier this year, I passed the interview and spent six weeks in "team match" before I gave up and took a role with another company. Had a friend who did the same for months for a PM role. Just bc you're getting contacted by Google recruiters this week or interviewing doesn't mean you'll ever fi…

Had a multi-month team matching phase followed by a 4-day exploding offer for ~50% below market and got blacklisted for a year or more when I didn't sign it. Great.

That's weird, most people I know with Google offers say they're good for a year or more.
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