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Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

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Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#401

Post by vacri »

ugh wrote: post #301
vacri wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not used lion so am not familiar with it, but going from what someone else is saying above, you need to 'duplicate' then 'save'. If it's autosaving, this doesn't make sense conceptually either. Why would the app not be autosaving once the duplicated document has been created? Why do you need to save separately?

You still have to save one first time, else the OS wouldn’t know where to put the file and how to name it. Lion only auto saves after that. That is irrespective of whether your create a new file or duplicate a file. (Apple could have been a lot more radical here, I’m unsure whether they should have been. That certainly would have meant a lot more work and it would have been an even more complicated transition.)

I would have thought that the duplicate function would have had 'duplicate it where?' in it.

The only reason I can think of for not having this is so you could make temporary changes to a document and not have them saved - which just seems to be a different way of arranging the cart and horse compared to the 'save as' workflow. With the Save As workflow, temporary changes are simply not saved. With the Duplicate workflow, you have to dupe the document first to avoid unwanted saving, then make your temporary changes. I don't see much of an improvement overall.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#402

Post by demetris »

nitrogen wrote: post #248
kamechan wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i tend not to use it for this very reason. i've wished, on more than one occasion, that a user could customize this action to be a "maximize vertically", as one could in gnome2. maybe i'm one of the few who actually used this, as it seems to have been phased out in gnome3. but i found it very useful.

You're not the only one to use vertical maximization. I really liked being able to middle-click the maximize button for vertical, or right-click for horizontal. It seems that's no longer the case in Gnome-3-hacked-to-look-like-Gnome-2-in-Ubuntu-11.10. I suppose it's replaced by Windows 7-style border dragging, but that's less flexible as you can only do maximize, left half, or right half.

I’m using Gnome 3.2 on Debian Sid and vertical/horizontal maximization is still there.

To define shorcuts: Go to Settings, Keyboard, Shortcuts, Windows, and set your shortcuts.

To change the behaviour of middle-clicking or right-clicking on the title bar, install gnome-tweak-took, run gnome-tweak-tool, and go to the Windows section.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#403

Post by ohkine »

gourami73 wrote: post #242
kellishaver wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are home and end keys on a full-size Mac keyboard, too. They're not there on the compact keyboard layout, but many Windows laptops have home/end mapped to other keys, as well. Granted, that's usually is indicated on the keys, whereas it's not on the Mac, but you still have to go hunting for them the first time you need them and one time is all it takes to learn their location.

...those home and end keys unfortunately don't take you to the beginning or end of a line like on Windows or Linux...they take you to the top/bottom of the document! one of the more painful parts of my switching process was un-training myself to hit home to get to the beginning of a line (these is no way to remap system wide either, you need to do it on a per app basis)...you're almost better off without having those…

Late to this, but...

> these is no way to remap system wide either, you need to do it on a per app basis

That isn't true. OS X actually has a very powerful and easy-to-use (but NOT easy-to-discover) method of controlling key bindings, and it applies instantly to ALL Cocoa applications (which, now that Finder and iTunes are Cocoa, means every common GUI application except Firefox).

This isn't my link, but here is an excellent site that describes the Cocoa text system:

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/Site/Cocoa%20Text%20System....

And, if you're interested, here is the DefaultKeyBindings file that i've use on every OS X-based Mac i've ever had to fix Apple's default Home/End/PgUp/PgDn implementation:

https://github.com/ohkine/configs/blob/master/KeyBindings/De...

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#404

Post by speleding »

sycren wrote: post #268
kamechan wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i tend not to use it for this very reason. i've wished, on more than one occasion, that a user could customize this action to be a "maximize vertically", as one could in gnome2. maybe i'm one of the few who actually used this, as it seems to have been phased out in gnome3. but i found it very useful.

I think I use tools like Divvy http://mizage.com/#macdivvy more than I use the zoom icon, it makes it so much easier to position windows..

Yeah, over the years Mac OS has increasingly offered functionality that was once a separate utility to install, MacDivvy is one of the few utilities left I install separately.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#405

Post by ugh »

vacri wrote: post #401
ugh wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have to save one first time, else the OS wouldn’t know where to put the file and how to name it. Lion only auto saves after that. That is irrespective of whether your create a new file or duplicate a file. (Apple could have been a lot more radical here, I’m unsure whether they should have been. That certainly would have meant a lot more work and it would have been an even more complicated transition.)

I would have thought that the duplicate function would have had 'duplicate it where?' in it. The only reason I can think of for not having this is so you could make temporary changes to a document and not have them saved - which just seems to be a different way of arranging the cart and horse compared to the 'save as' workflow. With the Save As workflow, temporary changes are simply not saved. With the Duplicate work…

The new behavior protects from the following scenario (which I think is very common): Someone wants to use an old document as a template and in the process overwrites the old document. That’s data loss and the user likely becomes unable to even find the new document since it’s saved under the name of the old document.

It used to be the case that users had to actually make a mistake in order for this to happen (i.e. they had to forget to do a Save as and do a Save instead – that happened to me way too often, though), with auto save they would make that mistake automatically and every time.

I think what Apple could do is add a “Duplicate and save” function, I don’t think Save as is salvageable with auto save.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#406

Post by jodrellblank »

hollerith wrote: post #224
jodrellblank wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I click the Maximize button on OSX, it doesn't actually maximize the window 99% of the time, it just picks a seemingly random size. I saw an app a while ago that would let you control how your OSX apps are resized when you maximize them, but if I have to buy an app just to make my OS do what it should do anyway, there's something wrong. If you're going to judge it based on your existing preconceptions, of course…

>Then came the rise of the laptop and it does hold again. So Lion gained fullscreen. So your argument is that Lion's fullscreen is a response to these newfangled laptop things?

Basically, yes. More specifically, they could have responded to Windows's fullscreen button years ago, or consumer griping years ago, I think it most likely that they saw iPad as a success in terms of doing one fullscreen thing at a time, and they built an OS X version 'for' the 11 and 13" MacBook Air with fullscreen.

I.e. I don't think they made fullscreen primarily for imac, mac pro, or 17" mbp users, or to copy windows or Linux for feature checklist purposes.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#407

Post by [deleted] »

hollerith wrote: post #224
jodrellblank wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I click the Maximize button on OSX, it doesn't actually maximize the window 99% of the time, it just picks a seemingly random size. I saw an app a while ago that would let you control how your OSX apps are resized when you maximize them, but if I have to buy an app just to make my OS do what it should do anyway, there's something wrong. If you're going to judge it based on your existing preconceptions, of course…

>Then came the rise of the laptop and it does hold again. So Lion gained fullscreen. So your argument is that Lion's fullscreen is a response to these newfangled laptop things?

[deleted]

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#408

Post by ljf »

For any 'non-geek' friends (or just non-geek hacker news readers like me) try JoliOS from www.jolicloud.com - it's Ubunto with a friendly HTML5 skin.

Easy install of apps, auto update of the OS, really easy to use, sync across loads of computers, runs on any laptop or pc that can run XP, and is FAST.

I have it on a netbook and also as a dual boot on y pc, and I now rarely boot to Windows.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#409

Post by angstrom »

crazysim wrote: post #373
angstrom wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks a little like ShiftIt (a similar utility) http://code.google.com/p/shiftit/

You want to use the github fork which is still being developed.

Thanks for the notice. I get the auto updates and hadn't noticed I was on 1.5 and the google code page stops at 1.2

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#410

Post by jodrellblank »

ronnier wrote: post #26

People who are feverishly pro Android and Mac OS X users are in a weird situation. They are so anti iPhone that they are starting to turn on Mac OS X.

Alternately, lots of people hurried to "*nix with a nice GUI" and are now realising that it was just a stepping stone along the way to what Apple really wanted to produce: "Apps with no OS you need to care about, or can get to".

Perhaps in 3 years Tim O'Reilly's post and commentary will be seen as early cracks in a dissapointed technical community leaving OS X in larger and larger numbers.

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