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Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

abc.net.au

231–240 of 363 posts

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#231
post #150
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot's of videogames have had to be modified to be released here, in recent memory Hotline Miami 2, Stick of Truth, Fallout 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games_in_...

From your link: > Stick of Truth: Banned because of a scene of sexual violence involving minors. Sounds to me like the censors are doing a good job.

Are the censors doing a good job? What about these reasons?

> Banned for drug use related to incentives and rewards.

> Banned because of sexuality and nudity in relation to incentives and rewards.

> Banned because of high impact violence and torture.

> Banned because of high impact bloody violence.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#232
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure! https://www.classification.gov.au/classification-ratings/wha... > Every film and computer game has to be classified before it can be legally made available to the Australian public, unless it is exempt or is being shown at a registered event. If they refuse classification then it is banned.

It looks like Australia is close to China not only geographically but also by the censorship practices.

Except that, in practice, they are miles apart in what actually gets censored.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#233

After a discussion with a lawyer friend (not australia, canada, so tangentially related), the "presumption of innocence" that would not obligate this person to have or produce a key for whatever gibberish someone sends to their devices, is what's known in legal circles as a "principle of fundamental justice," and it is not a right that is either absolute or inaliable the way that american rights are set up. One doesn…

When I was young, the thought of a "Constitution" requiring a supermajority to modify seemed arcane. "If it's the will of the people, let it be done." Today, I am forever jealous of America's Constitution. No matter which crazies are elected, they face an extreme uphill battle to remove basic rights. Sadly I do not see the UK/AU/NZ/CAN creating their own Constitutions. Those in power understand it would limit their p…

> Today, I am forever jealous of America's Constitution. No matter which crazies are elected, they face an extreme uphill battle to remove basic rights.

Me too. In my country we've got politicians proposing amendments to the constitution every other day like it was nothing, it happens frequently enough for there to be jargon and acronyms for it: Constitutional Amendment Proposals. USA at least has a solid ideological foundation to stand on, even though its government violates the rights of americans on a daily basis.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#234
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices, Not especially applicable to border lockdowns within Australia. The biggest case that hit the Federal Court was the border closure by the State of Western Australia (population ~ 2 million, land area 3x Texas) which was in effect the local citizens of W.Australia being damn near 100% i…

I originally had written premiers and PM's offices, not sure why I edited it. It wasn't a statement about federalism but about where power was located within each level of government. Obviously the judiciary is much less powerful here than the US, but my point was how power has been stripped away from party members, legislatures, the civil service, and most of the political executive. Even senior ministers have effec…

> As for the WA border closure, if you read the judgement it did not say that the constitution only applies to the trade of goods. In Australia constitutional rights can simply be overridden by necessity.

I have read both the judgement re: WA which upheld the State's Right to enact quarantine during a biosecurity emergancy "while that situation lasted" and I've read the Australian Constitution, in particular the passage that supposedly allows free unencumbered travel between States even during a pandemic (which, I'm afraid, it doesn't).

These specifics aside, I agree that various Federal Governments have pushed past the bounds of what most citizens find acceptable and it's right and correct that they push back and mount challenges.

In the specific case of these environmental protestors I feel the former Government did go to excess in surveillance and stalking them in a manner befitting terrorists plotting malfeasance. No soup for them.

In the same manner of fair view to both sides, this particular protest group had in the past and did intend in the future to go beyond public and visible protest and fully into the realm of trespass and disruption of ongoing business activity.

Personally I applaud the ascent and hanging from a coal port stack loader - it was a ballsy move and good publicity and reminds me of things I did on several occassions in my 20s - but it was also trespass and beyond mere protest.

None of which justifies the excess bail conditions outlined in the OP article.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#235
post #98

After a discussion with a lawyer friend (not australia, canada, so tangentially related), the "presumption of innocence" that would not obligate this person to have or produce a key for whatever gibberish someone sends to their devices, is what's known in legal circles as a "principle of fundamental justice," and it is not a right that is either absolute or inaliable the way that american rights are set up. One doesn…

The entire tradition of thought around natural law and limits on the legitimate scope of the state have simply disappeared in Australia so far as I can tell. Everyone just accepts that the state has absolute sovereignty and it can pass any laws it wants. Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices, minimal parliamentary autonomy (i…

>Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies

Not all commonwealth nations. Some have devolved into banana republic failed state kleptocracies. Spend a day reading up on what's happening in South Africa's politics and see for yourself.

We are either so ahead of the times that SA is a model for what's coming for countries like CAD/AUS/NZ, or we skipped the functional-but-overstepping government phase completely and just went straight to the gutter.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#236

After a discussion with a lawyer friend (not australia, canada, so tangentially related), the "presumption of innocence" that would not obligate this person to have or produce a key for whatever gibberish someone sends to their devices, is what's known in legal circles as a "principle of fundamental justice," and it is not a right that is either absolute or inaliable the way that american rights are set up. One doesn…

COVID-19, and in particular New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern's response during the early days of the pandemic, has made me rethink the idea of absolute freedom and a constitutional federated republic. Over a million Americans are dead now because of some combination of "muh freedoms", "the economy", and "that's really a state issue, there's nothing we can do at the federal level". In contrast, Ardern was like no, I am the most powerful person in this country and I say you're all going on strict lockdown. And how many Kiwis died? Like a few hundred? Of course most of those deaths have been since the NZ government relaxed restrictions and "let the plague ships back in" as Aurynn Shaw put it.

The government can do whatever it wants to you because it's the government. This is true even in the USA. They can spy on you, lie to you, set you up to take the fall for a crime you didn't commit. Obviously these are bad things, but my point is the government has near-infinite resources and ultimate authority among the people; appeals to limit government power through constitutionalism and republicanism obviously aren't going to work very well, even in the most constitutional-republic-ass country on the planet, the USA. So the only question is, how do we ensure, to the maximum extent possible, that government's absolute, sovereign power is applied to the greater good?

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#237
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure! https://www.classification.gov.au/classification-ratings/wha... > Every film and computer game has to be classified before it can be legally made available to the Australian public, unless it is exempt or is being shown at a registered event. If they refuse classification then it is banned.

The same has been the case in the UK for at least the last 20 years with games requiring BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) or VSC (Video Standards Council) [0] ratings. As of 27th July 2012 [1] UK enacted a Statutory Instrument "The Video Recordings (Labelling) Regulations 2012" [2] ... > From today, it is a criminal offence to sell video games with a “12” rating to those younger than that age. ... manadate…

Is the outcome ever a refusal to classify them at all though?

I think even when some films (e.g. Clockwork Orange at first I believe?) were banned they were still rated by the BBFC, it was councils that banned cinemas from showing them locally?

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I steal a car from a car dealership, what am I guilty of other than "causing economic damage"? Isn't economic damage the fundamental issue of any theft?

You are guilty of property theft. You forcibly took away something that belonged to another entity. The fundamental issue is property. No "economic damage" slips into the argument. If that was the case, market competition would be illegal as you cause economic damage to your competitors. Advocating for veganism would be illegal because you cause economic damage to meat sellers. Inventing new technologies would be ill…

It's worth noting that merely "causing major economic loss" is not an offence in itself, it's just an aggravating factor for other offences.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to get the government's permission to be able to publish your game in Australia. That sounds weird. I'm Australian and I've never heard of that. Can you share some links so I can learn more about that?

Not OP but I think this is about classification which is done by the same office that gives movie ratings, etc. The way I understand it unclassified versions can't be sold via retail. The biggest stink was what happened to GTA with the Hot Coffee minigame. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games_in_...

This issue was brilliantly parodied by Penny Arcade back in the day:

> ESRB employee: "What about games with infinite replayability, or ones that include procedurally generated content?"

> Bureaucrat: "I don't understand anything you just said."

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/10/02/censorship-mad...

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#240
post #235
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire tradition of thought around natural law and limits on the legitimate scope of the state have simply disappeared in Australia so far as I can tell. Everyone just accepts that the state has absolute sovereignty and it can pass any laws it wants. Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices, minimal parliamentary autonomy (i…

>Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies Not all commonwealth nations. Some have devolved into banana republic failed state kleptocracies. Spend a day reading up on what's happening in South Africa's politics and see for yourself. We are either so ahead of the times that SA is a model for what's coming for countries like CAD/AUS/NZ, or we skipped the functional-but-overstepping…

> Spend a day reading up on what's happening in South Africa's politics and see for yourself.

South Africa is less analogous to an internal devolution and more analogous to one country being conquered by another country.

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