Live data from Hacker News

Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

abc.net.au

211–220 of 363 posts

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#211
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution is not much to be jealous about. In Australia, if people are unhappy with laws, they can change the government, who in turn can change the laws. Meanwhile, in the US, the validity of laws is decided based upon the views of unelected bureaucrats appointed by past Presidents. The US has the highly undesirable situation of (1) the possibility of a deadlocked President (because Congress does not suppo…

> A bad PM can be ousted in a day. By whom? The parliament that confirmed him as PM? The parliament where the PM's party almost always holds the most seats? A parliamentary system essentially combines the executive and legislative powers to one party.

> By whom?

Haha. You could ask:

Gough Whitlam

Kevin Rudd

Julia Gillard

Tony Abbot

Malcolm Turnbull

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#212
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution is not much to be jealous about. In Australia, if people are unhappy with laws, they can change the government, who in turn can change the laws. Meanwhile, in the US, the validity of laws is decided based upon the views of unelected bureaucrats appointed by past Presidents. The US has the highly undesirable situation of (1) the possibility of a deadlocked President (because Congress does not suppo…

> A bad PM can be ousted in a day. By whom? The parliament that confirmed him as PM? The parliament where the PM's party almost always holds the most seats? A parliamentary system essentially combines the executive and legislative powers to one party.

Technically speaking, by Queen Elizabeth.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#213

Note these are bail conditions (so presumably an alternative to a much more constrained existence in prison) for a charge that indicates potential for inflicting severe economic damage after organization via communication devices. When compared to bail conditions for other charged crimes which may also be strict and context-related (eg. trackers or keeping distance from a victim of violence) it sounds tough (and righ…

The fact "causing economic damage" is a crime should be enough of a red flag by itself.

If I steal a car from a car dealership, what am I guilty of other than "causing economic damage"? Isn't economic damage the fundamental issue of any theft?

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to get the government's permission to be able to publish your game in Australia. That sounds weird. I'm Australian and I've never heard of that. Can you share some links so I can learn more about that?

Sure! https://www.classification.gov.au/classification-ratings/wha... > Every film and computer game has to be classified before it can be legally made available to the Australian public, unless it is exempt or is being shown at a registered event. If they refuse classification then it is banned.

It looks like Australia is close to China not only geographically but also by the censorship practices.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#215

After a discussion with a lawyer friend (not australia, canada, so tangentially related), the "presumption of innocence" that would not obligate this person to have or produce a key for whatever gibberish someone sends to their devices, is what's known in legal circles as a "principle of fundamental justice," and it is not a right that is either absolute or inaliable the way that american rights are set up. One doesn…

It’s not really an absolute right in America either. Specifically this seems pretty similar to the restrictions put on prisoner’s communications in the US.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#216
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire tradition of thought around natural law and limits on the legitimate scope of the state have simply disappeared in Australia so far as I can tell. Everyone just accepts that the state has absolute sovereignty and it can pass any laws it wants. Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices, minimal parliamentary autonomy (i…

> Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices, Not especially applicable to border lockdowns within Australia. The biggest case that hit the Federal Court was the border closure by the State of Western Australia (population ~ 2 million, land area 3x Texas) which was in effect the local citizens of W.Australia being damn near 100% i…

I originally had written premiers and PM's offices, not sure why I edited it. It wasn't a statement about federalism but about where power was located within each level of government.

Obviously the judiciary is much less powerful here than the US, but my point was how power has been stripped away from party members, legislatures, the civil service, and most of the political executive. Even senior ministers have effectively no political power whatsoever, they're just sent out with their lines to read. All the power is concentrated within the PMO (or Number 10 in UK parlance), which nowadays solely dictates party strategy and policy.

As for the WA border closure, if you read the judgement it did not say that the constitution only applies to the trade of goods. In Australia constitutional rights can simply be overridden by necessity. You saw the same with the implied right to political communication which has been routinely ignored, as in the Bolt case. If you want to read up on this, look up the doctrine of structured proportionality especially as it's been applied since McCloy. Basically governments can flagrantly breach the constitution and then it's up to the courts to decide whether the transgression was justified based off their own value-judgements. The court was satisfied there was a public health justification for the closure, so s92 goes into the bin.

Realistically until Kiefel and Keane retire, Australians don't have any genuine constitutional rights because they'll just extend the doctrine of structured proportionality to whatever constitutional right is in question. "Non-absolute" rights are simply not rights in any sense of the word.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#217
post #60

Australia has always been somewhat of a prison colony with extensive censorship of media and the Internet and almost no constitutional rights as Americans understand them.

Most Australians assume they have the same rights as Americans.

Are you living in Australia? Just curious to understand where is this belief coming from.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#218
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Constitution is not much to be jealous about. In Australia, if people are unhappy with laws, they can change the government, who in turn can change the laws. Meanwhile, in the US, the validity of laws is decided based upon the views of unelected bureaucrats appointed by past Presidents. The US has the highly undesirable situation of (1) the possibility of a deadlocked President (because Congress does not suppo…

> A bad PM can be ousted in a day. By whom? The parliament that confirmed him as PM? The parliament where the PM's party almost always holds the most seats? A parliamentary system essentially combines the executive and legislative powers to one party.

> A bad PM can be ousted in a day

1 person, appointed by the Queen. In this case it isnt a "slippery slope" where technically it could happen etc it happened.

"The 1975 Australian constitutional crisis, also known simply as the Dismissal, culminated on 11 November 1975 with the dismissal from office of the Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam of the Australian Labor Party (ALP), by Governor-General Sir John Kerr."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Australian_constitutional...

Later it was alleged that Kerr had acted for the United States government in dismissing Whitlam.

There is actually a lot to one day come out about that interesting period of time.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwi here, we have? What are you referring to? We have a rather dim outlook of Australian federal/state government overreach too, and some of their populist policies that discriminate against us, often with racist origins. And we've often enjoyed a TV drama or three recounting horrendous corruption in various Australian police forces. (I highly recommend the Underbelly series')

New Zealand had some of the toughest lockdowns in the entire world. It only just lifted the last of the travel restrictions ( https://covid19.govt.nz/international-travel/when-new-zealan... ). It mandated vaccinations in all kinds of ways, including firing hundreds of nurses at the height of a pandemic for what appears to be the worst kind of virtue signalling I have ever seen. The latest democratic crisis involved h…

Horseshit. A few nurses were stood down because they wouldn't get a vaccination in a pandemic. Good.

Your take on the Three Waters reforms is just completely wronghewded, there is so much misinformation about those changes it's ridiculous. Water systems need fixing up in NZ and it makes no sense to let small local councils do it when larger bodies can borrow at better rates to get the infrastructure work done.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#220
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure! https://www.classification.gov.au/classification-ratings/wha... > Every film and computer game has to be classified before it can be legally made available to the Australian public, unless it is exempt or is being shown at a registered event. If they refuse classification then it is banned.

It looks like Australia is close to China not only geographically but also by the censorship practices.

It’s more that Australians don’t care about things that don’t actually mean anything, it’s accepted that the politburo will pass laws that are irrelevant and the general population ignores the ones that don’t matter

This has worked so far because we don’t have extremist police who apply the law to the letter- they themselves see laws as mostly suggestions

Post reply on HN