Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#161

Post by watwut » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:49 AM UTC

drc500free wrote: post #114

p1necone wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but when people talk about the USAs suing culture they are primarily talking about personal injury suits and ambulance chasers aren't they?

Which largely exist because American health costs for an injury are life destroying, so few people can just eat the hospital bill.

It exists also because legal system is setup that way. For Example I Europe there is tendency to expect more detailed regulation to decide where lines are. In USA you get more general law and then people are supposed to fight it in court. Courts then decide details by cases.

It is rather bug difference.

Also, insurance companies when they settle claims, they force you to formally sue the other person or they sue each other. Most of these are routine formalities. Again, system setup in a way to generate suits.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#162

Post by NullPrefix » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:51 AM UTC

chrisdirkis wrote: post #137

tomc1985 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Economic damage is real damage. If you break windows, and the govt has to repair those windows, it has less money to spend on welfare and charity and doing other stuff that a govt wants to do.

Breaking windows sounds more like physical damage

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#163

Post by calsy » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:51 AM UTC

redact207 wrote: post #140

calsy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes those anti-mask nut jobs complaining about how spare rags fashioned into a mask don't stop the spread of covid. Wow thats crazy talk!

Yes, those anti-mask nut jobs complaining about mandates that don't exist. Now, is protesting climate change any less legitimate or any more harmful that would warrant the level of punishment mentioned in the article?

No post body was provided.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#164

Post by gg82 » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:52 AM UTC

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #120

calsy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes those anti-mask nut jobs complaining about how spare rags fashioned into a mask don't stop the spread of covid. Wow thats crazy talk!

It's more the fact that they're protesting mask mandates that were lifted months ago, lockdowns that haven't happened for almost a year, and QR code checkins that are no longer present. They are not advocating for N95 face masks out of concern that the cloth ones are ineffective.

Well... they wouldn't have been arrested if the mandates had been lifted. Or are you talking about people protesting them now? Because, If they weren't still protesting them, the mandates would still be in place or be re-imposed!

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#165

Post by watwut » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:55 AM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #13

kgeist wrote: post #7

I just checked that the right against self-incrimination exists in Australia, too. Isn't it a violation of this law to require someone to tell their passwords?

IMO, this is a key difference between AU and USA. In Australia the government gives you rights. But that means they can also revoke them in some situations since the rights are derived from the government itself. In the US, our rights are innate and inalienable. We possess them because we exist. Our constitution says the government cannot violate these innate rights, not that the document/government gives us the righ…

I dunno, usa does not sounds like shining beacon. Between qualified immunity, asset forfeiture, and general acceptance of cops right to shoot you cause you have hands wrong ... plus justice in us is so expensive, that you likely can't afford it in the first place.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#166

Post by jaza » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:57 AM UTC

causality0 wrote: post #21

The headline made me think he was a child pornographer. Holy shit, Australia does this for an illegal protest?

Not just any old protest. Chaining oneself to train tracks, stopping coal-laden trains from reaching the Port of Newcastle (the world's biggest coal export facility). Don't underestimate what the fossil fools in power here in Australia will do, to literally ensure that their gravy train keeps rolling along.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#167

Post by cato_the_elder » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:58 AM UTC

ehnto wrote: post #160

ivanb wrote: post #154

Is there a decent country left in the world? One that values privacy, family values, private property and freedoms, knows a man from a woman and is not at war?

You say freedom but it sounds like you already have some viewpoints you don't think should be allowed, so freedom for you but not for others?

It is. Not all of are relativists.

Freedom and anarchy aren't synonyms. Contrary to popular belief, the fundamental freedoms many of us desire are not bestowed upon us by God or something. They are upheld at gun point, by threat of violence, and by borders.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#168

Post by watwut » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:59 AM UTC

calsy wrote: post #97

redact207 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yes those anti-mask nut jobs complaining about how spare rags fashioned into a mask don't stop the spread of covid. Wow thats crazy talk!

The anto masks protests were not for mandate to use stronger masks. They were usually against any masks at all.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#169

Post by defrost » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 5:59 AM UTC

baazaa wrote: post #98

motohagiography wrote: post #6

After a discussion with a lawyer friend (not australia, canada, so tangentially related), the "presumption of innocence" that would not obligate this person to have or produce a key for whatever gibberish someone sends to their devices, is what's known in legal circles as a "principle of fundamental justice," and it is not a right that is either absolute or inaliable the way that american rights are set up. One doesn…

The entire tradition of thought around natural law and limits on the legitimate scope of the state have simply disappeared in Australia so far as I can tell. Everyone just accepts that the state has absolute sovereignty and it can pass any laws it wants. Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices, minimal parliamentary autonomy (i…

> Commonwealth nations have largely devolved into illiberal elective autocracies with immense power concentrated in the PM's offices,

Not especially applicable to border lockdowns within Australia.

The biggest case that hit the Federal Court was the border closure by the State of Western Australia (population ~ 2 million, land area 3x Texas) which was in effect the local citizens of W.Australia being damn near 100% in lockstep with their elected local representatives in saying we have no desire to see free movement of people across our State border during the time of the pandemic.

They were in opposition to the Federal Government and the PM's office and held their ground ..

.. despite the alleged "immense power concentrated in the PM's offices".

Free trade of goods continued via rail, road, and shipping so their was no issue with that part of the Consttitution, and the lockdown was in keeping with earlier (2005 etc) biosecurity ammendments in both State and Federal law.

Re: Australian activist can't use encrypted apps, must let police access phone

#170

Post by jaza » Mon, Aug 01, 2022, 6:01 AM UTC

jasongi wrote: post #102

calsy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What extensive censorship of media? Australian's have plenty of 'constitutional rights', the right to vote, the right to property, the right to trial by jury, freedom of religion.

"constitutional rights as Americans understand them" I assume is referring to the bill of rights. Australia doesn't have a bill of rights and most of our "rights" mentioned above are not "constituional" (in the sense that the constitution guarentees them) and are either conferred via common law, legislation, or not at all. And to be honest, I am OK with this. A lot of negative change in the US seems to be coming from…

Yep. The general consensus here in Australia is: "look at the USA, their bill of rights has the right to bear arms, gee didn't that turn out great, we'll stick with what we've got thanks".