Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, we'll just grow it in the midwest, ie, the rest of the country. Only reason we grow mostly corn is because of subsidies. That can be easily changed. If you're suggesting CA is the only viable farmland in the country, you are mistaken.
You can't grow any of the mediterranean/mid-east fruit or nut trees in the midwest as they are killed by frost. That rules out most of the stuff that California is famous for exporting - almonds, pistachios, citrus. Many of the ones that do grow won't be commercially competitive - the seasons can be short. And of course, unlike corn, you're going to have to find people to pick all this fruit.
Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
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Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#92It was, and still is, plain old stupid to build those giant cities in those barren deserts. The idea that we'd all have to pay for pipelines to push that water all those miles feels a bit painful to me now, and the complete lack of any discussion about the environmental impact of doing this very bothersome too.
There are many other issues to consider, like the quality of that Mississippi water. They don't call that river "The Big Muddy" for nothing. And there is still a lot of industry that use and dumped used water into it, and farms that have runoff of pesticides all along it and it's tributaries.
The total driving distance from New Orleans to Las Vegas is 1,722 miles. I doubt you can route a pipeline in a way that reduces that much. The cost and environmental impact of building one would be enormous.
This plan feels like it was concocted by someone who's never driven from Las Vegas to New Orleans, or spent anytime on or around the Mississippi River. It gets low on water too. There are droughts in the mid-west too.
Truth is there is no good sustainable solution to this problem as it exist. The only reasonable solution is to stop building new homes right now, and look into how to reduce the number that exists because it's obvious they've already overbuilt.
It's hard for me to imagine anyone with a lick of sense taking this seriously, but that's a shortcoming of mine I am well aware of nowadays.
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#93If California hasn't lived within its means so far, why do we think that would change after giving them other regions' water?
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#94What about desalination? Would that be more cost effective?
The states in question don’t have oceans to desalinate.
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
California being the 5th largest world GDP if it were its own country, I think it may come out on top pretty easily. Also the home of things we bomb the shit out of people with…
You think CA would still be 5th in GDP without reliable water? Unless desalination becomes more efficient, CA is thirsty.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/304869/california-real-g...
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
once CA dries up the person above will then complain their food prices rose 4-5x because CA can't produce any food for them anymore. How about CA trades food for water.
Fruits and vegetables existed before the Central Valley you know. CA doesn’t have a monopoly on producing those. I’m fine not eating salad in December if you give all the water back from the Colorado river.
> California produces a sizable majority of many American fruits, vegetables, and nuts: 99 percent of artichokes, 99 percent of walnuts, 97 percent of kiwis, 97 percent of plums, 95 percent of celery, 95 percent of garlic, 89 percent of cauliflower, 71 percent of spinach, and 69 percent of carrots (and the list goes on and on).
Those other states are monocultures of federal subsidies like wheat, cotton or corn.
https://slate.com/technology/2013/07/california-grows-all-of...
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#97I understand that this is mostly for agriculture, but maybe let's stop building and expanding big cities in the desert. Golf courses in Phoenix, for example, seem like an irresponsible use of water.
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't grow any of the mediterranean/mid-east fruit or nut trees in the midwest as they are killed by frost. That rules out most of the stuff that California is famous for exporting - almonds, pistachios, citrus. Many of the ones that do grow won't be commercially competitive - the seasons can be short. And of course, unlike corn, you're going to have to find people to pick all this fruit.
Respectfully disagree. We can engineer the 150k nuts acres to grow just fine. Or Modify the plants to be cold tolerant. We know a lot about Plant genetics and physiology. Just haven’t had the incentive.
> We know a lot about Plant genetics and physiology.
lol, no we don't. We can't even make grocery store food that doesn't taste like crap. Sometimes fruit trees skip a season - why? Nobody knows. Sure, we've gotten pretty good at messing around with corn, but it's simple, forgiving, not eaten fresh, and planted from seed every year. It's basically a model organism.
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there any region that “lives within its means” for all resources? Why is exporting or importing water so different from electricity, or food, or clothes, or iPhones?
> Is there any region that “lives within its means” for all resources? Why is exporting or importing water so different from electricity, or food, or clothes, or iPhones? Changing the water supply changes the environment of the entire region. It's needed for human survival. Surely you can see how that's different that exporting more or fewer iPhones, right?
Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Is there any region that “lives within its means” for all resources? Why is exporting or importing water so different from electricity, or food, or clothes, or iPhones? Changing the water supply changes the environment of the entire region. It's needed for human survival. Surely you can see how that's different that exporting more or fewer iPhones, right?
That isn’t the argument being made in the comment I replied to.