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Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

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Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#81

Post by atmartins »

alar44 wrote: post #24
ramraj07 wrote: post #7

This seems like the correct thing to do. There was at one point in time a more popular push in India to “connect all the rivers”. I was too young to fully understand what that meant, and also it’s not always easy to know whether something that’s proposed is truly feasible. But infrastructure to move water around your country especially when a large chunk is a desert makes perfect sense. I originally imagined this wou…

No, it's the stupid status quo thing to do. People need to move where resources are, not shift resources across an entire fucking continent doing god knows what to the ecosystems in between. This godlike arrogance thinking we can just rearrange the earth on a whim for our needs is the fucking problem. This is why humanity is a cancer.

Should... should. So. Should they move the canneries, ports, flat land, abundant sun and all the skilled labor and their families? Mechanics, installers, fabricators, etc.

It's not like it's a small operation. There are canneries almost a mile long. There are small mountains of peach pits that form when they're processed (these are used for other purposes by the way!).

What about mature orchards?

I'm not sure why people hate California so much. It's got a lot of problems, like most places... But it's pretty amazing how much shit goes on there.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#82

Post by kickout »

pvg wrote: post #59
kickout wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Travesty or not, not-posting regional flamewar all over the thread would be a good start.

Fair. Got heated in some comments.

That said, I do think water “wars” will be a thing in the not so distant future. Gonna get nasty IRL. Not meant to incite, just a prediction

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#83

Post by bee_rider »

tracerbulletx wrote: post #78
bee_rider wrote: post #32

I'm probably just uninformed about this, but can anyone explain why there are so many comments about California here? The article seems to be about: > Lake Powell (Glen Canyon dam on the Utah/Colorado border) and then downstream to Lake Mead (Hoover Dam/Las Vegas) and on through Arizona and beyond. The article seems to use California as an example in a couple places, for example > Water conservation on the part of ev…

California takes 27% of the water from the Colorado River. That's more than Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada combined.

Ah, ok. So the idea is pretty fanciful in the first place, but on top of that the author is also being disingenuous by focusing on southwestern states, then?

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#84

Post by tracerbulletx »

kickout wrote: post #9
ramraj07 wrote: post #7

This seems like the correct thing to do. There was at one point in time a more popular push in India to “connect all the rivers”. I was too young to fully understand what that meant, and also it’s not always easy to know whether something that’s proposed is truly feasible. But infrastructure to move water around your country especially when a large chunk is a desert makes perfect sense. I originally imagined this wou…

Quoted post unavailable.

The eastern United States has no shortage of water and presumably the states providing water would benefit economically from providing it to the areas that do.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#85

Post by jahewson »

kickout wrote: post #74
esalman wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the only reason, and it is not by choice either. California weather is more temperate than the rest of the US and it is more suitable for many types of crops compared to the rest of the US.

We can engineer the crops (plant breeding) or engineer the water (current system). Eastern geographies that are rain fed could replace CA production no problem

No. Firstly because California doesn't grow crops, it grows fruit and nuts, that grow on trees. Secondly because look, flavor and shelf-life all matter for these far more than crops, one cannot simply conjure up the desired properties. It's hard enough to create decent commercial fruit varietals as it is - a vast amount of effort and research has gone into creating the fruit and veg you see in the supermarket and there's already plenty of money to be had if you can, say, improve the self-life of an avocado without making it taste lousy. This work takes decades.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#86

Post by RajT88 »

rr808 wrote: post #54

Bear in mind that solar power is the future of energy - and the Western half of the USA will be the best place for that. Perhaps electricity for water is a fair swap? I dont like in general enabling people to live wasteful lives, but at the same time I feel like we've given up on big engineering projects. Most of the infrastructure we enjoy using in the US and other countries was built 100 years ago. Railway lines, b…

> I dont like in general enabling people to live wasteful lives

Those wasteful people in California only use 20% of the water.

The other 80% is agriculture.

I am sure there's a great many ways to get farmers to use less water.

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#87

Post by deadbolt »

creato wrote: post #75
CoastalCoder wrote: post #10

If California hasn't lived within its means so far, why do we think that would change after giving them other regions' water?

Is there any region that “lives within its means” for all resources? Why is exporting or importing water so different from electricity, or food, or clothes, or iPhones?

> Is there any region that “lives within its means” for all resources? Why is exporting or importing water so different from electricity, or food, or clothes, or iPhones?

Changing the water supply changes the environment of the entire region. It's needed for human survival. Surely you can see how that's different that exporting more or fewer iPhones, right?

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#88

Post by creato »

kickout wrote: post #39
colineartheta wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you dare to elaborate? I frequently see this sentiment, yet have never once seen any detail made as to how it’s possible. Please explain.

Why should you be guaranteed water if you live in CA? It’s an arid ecosystem that naturally has fires (chapparal) and low rainfall. It can only support so much life. Just because there are great views and great climate, the fatal flaw is lack of fresh water.

Just about every region requires some human intervention for comfortable living. Would you say the “fatal flaw” of living in CO is the lack of heat? Or the lack of AC in Texas?

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#89

Post by space_fountain »

_8j50 wrote: post #68
jvanderbot wrote: post #22

This is the worst take that I can't avoid hearing about. How does one build a canal that moves water uphill for 1500 miles across the continental divide in these quantities? If not a canal, then how do we do it? Pipes? We're talking a million cubic feet per second in the Colorado river during high times, which has been completely drained and diverted by communities downstream. The keystone pipeline carries 50 cubic f…

How? You investigate and research! Tunnels, alternate locations,using solar and wind to generate pump power and once operational, using a dam to supplement the pump with hydroelectric power. I mean, this is one challenging area where the best and brightest should be well funded to come up with a solution instead of writing them off. Desalination is not a dream either. People are fine to talk about colonizing other pl…

Bonds are a way of printing money, debt in general is how money is printed weirdly enough. And look, maybe our big ideas could focus on something that isn't solvable by just not trying to grow food in the desert or if we absolutely must doing it in a place that doesn't have plenty of land that isn't desert

Re: Time for Army Corps of Engineers to investigate moving water West?

#90

Post by RajT88 »

skybrian wrote: post #21
kickout wrote: post #5

Please stay away from our water. I want no part in helping California become more unsustainable. ETA: to westerners- You have enough water to maintain first class lifestyles. Allocate/ration it better or cap population. Stop stealing from others.

Consider the difference between stealing and buying water, and that often, in the Mississippi watershed, there is too much water. Selling water you don't need or want and getting paid for it doesn't seem like a bad thing? Although, a lot depends on the price.

> Consider the difference between stealing and buying water, and that often, in the Mississippi watershed, there is too much water.

Tapping into the Mississippi is the more sensible megaproject than the great lakes. Prevent the great floods by redirecting that water to the reservoirs out west.

It's still a mad plan. Don't get me wrong.

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