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Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

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Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#151

Post by TaylorAlexander »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #143
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the workers want unions… why not just let them have unions? Amazon is hell bent on suppressing worker power. Acting like Amazon isn’t doing anything wrong here is wishful thinking. We can keep pretending like the needs of the workers are immaterial to the functioning of society or we can let workers have some modicum of control over their workplace conditions. But right now Amazon is trying to crush workers rights…

In theory, a union is merely an organization of like-minded people much like the workmans' guilds of the medieval era. In practice, a union is a country club operating as an extension of state power. It is highly liable to create perverse incentives. There is no such thing as worker power in and of itself so long as the government dictates the terms of unionization. > Amazon is trying to crush workers rights What wor…

There have been a lot of things done in the USA to make unions worse. Such as the Taft-Hartley act which placed significant restrictions on union power. This isn’t the fault of unions but of state power meant to weaken unions as a concept. Whatever flaws there may be with unions in practice in this country, I believe they still do offer an opportunity for workers to directly advocate for their needs in a way that has real consequences for an employer who tries to trample them. This is what Amazon is opposing. If you have an issue with how unions are implemented in this country, complain about that. But don’t misunderstand the value in workers rights.

> What workers' rights are being violated when Amazon decides who may or may not be a future employee at an Amazon warehouse?

You can try to distill the action in to its parts to rob it of its meaning. I could say “I’m merely holding this pointy object and moving my hand forward? Surely I should have a say over how I move my body?” But you would know you’re being stabbed all the same.

I don’t know why you want to pretend like Amazon’s efforts to crush unions are valueless. Workers are human beings who deserve some control over their workplace. Amazon is trying to prevent that. That’s what I and many are calling out as wrong and worth opposing.

EDIT: By the way the issue is not just about amazon’s hiring practices. I am referring to the wide variety of anti-union tactics Amazon is using to interfere with labor power. Take the point of this article. Amazon will try to make donations to sway political power in their favor so they can continue to get tax breaks without unions. These individual actions can be imagined as devoid of context and valueless, but the point of this action is clear: Amazon does not want its workers to have a say in their workplace.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#152

Post by Retric »

colinmhayes wrote: post #140
gruez wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just take a look at amazon warehouse worker turnover rate. No other company in the industry comes anywhere close. But all that says is "people don't want to work on amazon". It doesn't say why they don't want to work there. The parent post made a specific claim (ie. "the workload is however much worse"), which is consistent with worse working conditions, but not proof of it.

Well what are the reasons people would quit? 1. Low pay. As this thread pointed out Amazon actually pays above average for the warehouse industry. It doesn't make sense that their turnover is higher than other warehouse if people leave because the pay is too low. 2. Dislike of "big tech" and corporate capitalism more generally. Basically these are people who saw someone complain on twitter and quit. I doubt people th…

1 and 4 are linked.

Fit able bodied workers willing and able to put in a full day of hard labor have more options and are therefore more expensive. Aka if you get laid off of a 25$/hour construction job you might temporarily work at Amazon while looking for work, but you’re not staying for years. Amazon workers may therefore be under paid for their capabilities independent of industry norms.

5. Double the workplace accident rate of the rest of the industry also plays a role. You don’t just lose workers directly as people also quit out of fear for their health.

6. It’s in part a seasonal job. Amazon doesn’t need or want a steady workforce and can play with their quotas to lay people off without paying for unemployment.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#153

Post by lobocinza »

Are they using ex-inmates to harass unions and infiltrating students on unions? Nope. They are just hiring ex-inmates and students more which is a positive thing regardless of the motive. Being employed makes students and ex-inmates less vulnerable. Just skip the article.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#154

Post by socialistnutjob »

beloch wrote: post #142
zugi wrote: post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

"the memo proposed that Amazon should create and foster partnerships with local nonprofits and community organizations that company officials hoped would “provide political cover for local policymakers, neutralize organized labors’ attempts to grow their coalition of third-party validators and spokespeople, and provide a platform for Amazon spokespeople and allies to speak of the true economic and social impact of Am…

No post body was provided.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#155

Post by danielscrubs »

whatshisface wrote: post #149
danielscrubs wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we say that four percent has to be unemployed, who would you choose to be unemployed in the rat race that is life? Just to turn the discussion into something productive.

That is not how fixed unemployment works, the cause of fixed unemployment is people who are in the process of switching between jobs. Permanently unemployed people would reduce labor force participation , not employment as it is measured.

Only if they are not actively searching for a job. OECDs definition: “ The unemployed are people of working age who are _without work_ , are available for work, and have taken specific steps to find work.” This number for the year was around 4.7.

Labor force participation would decrease when people retire or never needed to work in the first place.

But I understand your point, it includes some people that will easily get a job but don’t have a job currently.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#156

Post by JamesBarney »

huetius wrote: post #134
Cyberdog wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, well, such is the case with the Dave Thomas Foundation, Ronald McDonald House, Product RED… Any good they do is all with the bottom line in mind. Meanwhile, the felon who gets a $15+/hour gig in an Amazon warehouse during the hardest time in their life, when no other employer in town will give them the time of day and the urges to fall back into those bad habits are creeping in, is probably not going to care muc…

We’re talking about plan to subvert unions. It is one thing to do something that is both good for me and also good for others. It is quite another to do something ostensibly good, but with the ulterior intention of preventing the good of another.

Why is hiring felons and underprivileged youth ostensibly good and not just good?

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#157

Post by edgyquant »

harry8 wrote: post #131
parineum wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's everyone but Amazon's fault, in this case.

Amazon exploiting that for profit and to increase power against other employees is Amazon's moral decision and their responsibility. They will spin it every way for sure. But note that they didn't hire ex-cons when not doing so helped them in their power struggle against labor. It was a thing that only happened when unemployment level dropped to the point where labor had a little bit of bargaining power and not at al…

Companies exist to make profit and are a market tool through which we reduce efficiencies. Society sets the conditions through which they operate via culture and perhaps more importantly regulations. Amazon didn’t incentivize the hiring of these employees society did (and the government through subsidies in a lot of states.)

Amazon is making a rational corporate decision. It’s being painted as a great evil by pro-union activists who treat all the other employees as useful idiots and former inmates too ignorant or needy to have their own opinion. It’s disgusting.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#158

Post by SEJeff »

zugi wrote: post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

Not saying unions are bad per se, but Teamsters are the bad guys in my experience.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#159

Post by whatshisface »

danielscrubs wrote: post #155
whatshisface wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not how fixed unemployment works, the cause of fixed unemployment is people who are in the process of switching between jobs. Permanently unemployed people would reduce labor force participation , not employment as it is measured.

Only if they are not actively searching for a job. OECDs definition: “ The unemployed are people of working age who are _without work_ , are available for work, and have taken specific steps to find work.” This number for the year was around 4.7. Labor force participation would decrease when people retire or never needed to work in the first place. But I understand your point, it includes some people that will easily…

Since people who have given up looking for work do not count towards the measured unemployment rate (and more to the point are not part of the concept of minimum unemployment), ex-cons are not a part of that notional 4%.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#160

Post by adriand »

beloch wrote: post #142
zugi wrote: post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

"the memo proposed that Amazon should create and foster partnerships with local nonprofits and community organizations that company officials hoped would “provide political cover for local policymakers, neutralize organized labors’ attempts to grow their coalition of third-party validators and spokespeople, and provide a platform for Amazon spokespeople and allies to speak of the true economic and social impact of Am…

It’s also so incredibly cynical. They aren’t supporting these organizations because it’s the right thing to do. It’s just a means to an end, namely preventing workers from organizing.

I wonder how many people who called out Amazon’s supposedly enlightened actions as unlikely to be altruistic or genuine were accused of being conspiracy theorists.

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