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Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

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Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#91

Post by aldebran »

missedthecue wrote: post #14
dave_sullivan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

That’s because the higher pay comes at the cost of peeing in bottles aka losing human dignity.

It feels like there’s no shortage of people out to defend Amazon either.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#92

Post by civilized »

huetius wrote: post #11
Cyberdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a parallel Earth, Vox has published an article praising Amazon to the high heavens for hiring felons and troubled youth. Nobody wants to hire ex-convicts, yet when they have nothing to lose (like a decent job) they're at far greater risk for recidivism. It's a bummer for the union people, I suppose, but as someone greatly concerned with how our society shows no shame in blatant classism with regards to ex-cons, I…

I totally agree with you about our society’s mistreatment of people who have paid their debts, but I’m not sure I like what Amazon is doing here. It smacks of using people: treating them like props in order to secure private gain.

> It smacks of using people

Work is fundamentally transactional. Those for whom it is more than that are lucky.

> treating them like props in order to secure private gain

I worry about moralizing on behalf of the marginalized. They should be asked whether they'd prefer the option to have the work.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#93

Post by dionidium »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #5
CSMastermind wrote: post #3

I really dislike sensationalized headlines like this. A more accurate one might say: > Amazon's plan to counter pressure from the Teamsters Union focuses on investing in non-profits. For those who didn't read the article: A leaked Amazon memo shows that the Teamsters Union is effectively putting pressure on Amazon by convincing its members to pressure politicians into not granting Amazon tax breaks, land grants, etc.…

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

Obviously, companies don't want to spend more on labor than they have to. But I doubt that's any company's major concern with unions. The issue, as I see it, is the lack of flexibility once unions take hold. Now you have a large democratic body with a lot of control over hiring and firing and with undue input about who in the company does what and according to which rules, which means, ultimately, over the company's ability to address novel challenges.

Just to take one silly example, when I worked at the phone company we weren't allowed to move our phones ourselves any time we moved desks. That was a task that by contract had to be performed by a union lineman. So a guy would show up, eventually, and unplug your phone from one desk and then plug it into another.

That kind of nonsense was in place all throughout the company. All kinds of ridiculous details were written down and enforced. The phone company barely even tries to be competitive, so whatever, I guess. You probably pay for that in your cellphone bill, but it's not the end of the world.

But if you're actually trying to be nimble and efficient, then that kind of stuff makes it a lot harder.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#94

Post by mechanical_bear »

zugi wrote: post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

> The Teamsters don't come out looking like the good guys...

This is often the case.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#95

Post by shepherdjerred »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #5
CSMastermind wrote: post #3

I really dislike sensationalized headlines like this. A more accurate one might say: > Amazon's plan to counter pressure from the Teamsters Union focuses on investing in non-profits. For those who didn't read the article: A leaked Amazon memo shows that the Teamsters Union is effectively putting pressure on Amazon by convincing its members to pressure politicians into not granting Amazon tax breaks, land grants, etc.…

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

This is very interesting. I’ve heard that warehouses have poor conditions, but not poor pay.

Anecdotally a friend of mine said that the warehouses pay very well, especially in smaller towns where there are less opportunities for young people who need short term work or flexible working hours.

Do competing warehouses pay better?

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#96

Post by Cyberdog »

huetius wrote: post #11
Cyberdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a parallel Earth, Vox has published an article praising Amazon to the high heavens for hiring felons and troubled youth. Nobody wants to hire ex-convicts, yet when they have nothing to lose (like a decent job) they're at far greater risk for recidivism. It's a bummer for the union people, I suppose, but as someone greatly concerned with how our society shows no shame in blatant classism with regards to ex-cons, I…

I totally agree with you about our society’s mistreatment of people who have paid their debts, but I’m not sure I like what Amazon is doing here. It smacks of using people: treating them like props in order to secure private gain.

Yes, well, such is the case with the Dave Thomas Foundation, Ronald McDonald House, Product RED… Any good they do is all with the bottom line in mind.

Meanwhile, the felon who gets a $15+/hour gig in an Amazon warehouse during the hardest time in their life, when no other employer in town will give them the time of day and the urges to fall back into those bad habits are creeping in, is probably not going to care much about being "used."

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#97

Post by WheatM »

missedthecue wrote: post #14
dave_sullivan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

No post body was provided.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#98

Post by parineum »

Retric wrote: post #48
missedthecue wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

Amazon is far from the first company bumping to 15$/hour. Even when they finally joined the 15$ club they where still underpaying people at the time as shown by their retention statistics. That’s the thing about free markets, workers get to say no. They can trade lower pay for a vastly less crappy job, or get better treatment for similar pay elsewhere etc. What’s less obvious is Amazon benefited from building out the…

> as shown by their retention statistics.

>That’s the thing about free markets, workers get to say no.

I like how these sentences are consecutive.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#99

Post by rowanG077 »

aldebran wrote: post #91
missedthecue wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

That’s because the higher pay comes at the cost of peeing in bottles aka losing human dignity. It feels like there’s no shortage of people out to defend Amazon either.

Did you read the comment? It claimed that amazon is not the outlier here.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#100

Post by shepherdjerred »

aldebran wrote: post #91
missedthecue wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

That’s because the higher pay comes at the cost of peeing in bottles aka losing human dignity. It feels like there’s no shortage of people out to defend Amazon either.

If someone is willing to sell their dignity (which I guess is now defined by whether or not you urinate in a bottle) then why should we stop them?

We’re not talking about safety or child labor where there’s a moral duty to put up guard rails.

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