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Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

vox.com

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Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#131

Post by harry8 »

parineum wrote: post #113
vintermann wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Altruism and PR aren't the only options. If the explanation is "they'll be less likely to dare to ask for better treatment" then I think that's a problem.

And that's everyone but Amazon's fault, in this case.

Amazon exploiting that for profit and to increase power against other employees is Amazon's moral decision and their responsibility. They will spin it every way for sure.

But note that they didn't hire ex-cons when not doing so helped them in their power struggle against labor. It was a thing that only happened when unemployment level dropped to the point where labor had a little bit of bargaining power and not at all before. That's a fact that won't be explained in the spin. I'm sure the Washington post will be all over it in their reporting though.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#132

Post by ipaddr »

huetius wrote: post #11
Cyberdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a parallel Earth, Vox has published an article praising Amazon to the high heavens for hiring felons and troubled youth. Nobody wants to hire ex-convicts, yet when they have nothing to lose (like a decent job) they're at far greater risk for recidivism. It's a bummer for the union people, I suppose, but as someone greatly concerned with how our society shows no shame in blatant classism with regards to ex-cons, I…

I totally agree with you about our society’s mistreatment of people who have paid their debts, but I’m not sure I like what Amazon is doing here. It smacks of using people: treating them like props in order to secure private gain.

Have you ever worked for a large corporation? Everyone is a prop and replaceable.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#133

Post by slt2021 »

civilized wrote: post #92
huetius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you about our society’s mistreatment of people who have paid their debts, but I’m not sure I like what Amazon is doing here. It smacks of using people: treating them like props in order to secure private gain.

> It smacks of using people Work is fundamentally transactional. Those for whom it is more than that are lucky. > treating them like props in order to secure private gain I worry about moralizing on behalf of the marginalized. They should be asked whether they'd prefer the option to have the work.

>> I worry about moralizing on behalf of the marginalized. They should be asked whether they'd prefer the option to have the work.

perfect quote! Nothing else really needs to be said.

People who oppose Amazon - I want to see you guys giving thousands jobs to convicts, before criticizing Amazon. Thank you. Talk is cheap

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#134

Post by huetius »

Cyberdog wrote: post #96
huetius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you about our society’s mistreatment of people who have paid their debts, but I’m not sure I like what Amazon is doing here. It smacks of using people: treating them like props in order to secure private gain.

Yes, well, such is the case with the Dave Thomas Foundation, Ronald McDonald House, Product RED… Any good they do is all with the bottom line in mind. Meanwhile, the felon who gets a $15+/hour gig in an Amazon warehouse during the hardest time in their life, when no other employer in town will give them the time of day and the urges to fall back into those bad habits are creeping in, is probably not going to care muc…

We’re talking about plan to subvert unions. It is one thing to do something that is both good for me and also good for others. It is quite another to do something ostensibly good, but with the ulterior intention of preventing the good of another.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#135

Post by huetius »

ipaddr wrote: post #132
huetius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you about our society’s mistreatment of people who have paid their debts, but I’m not sure I like what Amazon is doing here. It smacks of using people: treating them like props in order to secure private gain.

Have you ever worked for a large corporation? Everyone is a prop and replaceable.

So one should stay quiet? And yes. Both at the very bottom and close to the top.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#136

Post by imgabe »

> higher than average injury rates

We really need some kind of standard for how to present statistics in the news so that it’s not misleading.

If you take a bunch of numbers and average them together some will be higher than the average and some will be lower (unless they’re all the same number), because that’s how averages work.

What is the injury rate? How high is it? Is it an order of magnitude more? Is it one more than the average?

Just making vague scary sounding statements like “higher than average“ is nothing but manipulation.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#137

Post by stuaxo »

Cyberdog wrote: post #6
JamesBarney wrote: post #2

This article is both too cynical and yet not cynical enough. Of course Amazon is doing good not out of the goodness of it's heart but for good PR. This is true of literally every large corporation. But that doesn't mean the good they do isn't good. The way they are "neutralizing" them with ex inmates and vulnerable students is they're making a special effort to hire ex-inmates and underprivileged students.

On a parallel Earth, Vox has published an article praising Amazon to the high heavens for hiring felons and troubled youth. Nobody wants to hire ex-convicts, yet when they have nothing to lose (like a decent job) they're at far greater risk for recidivism. It's a bummer for the union people, I suppose, but as someone greatly concerned with how our society shows no shame in blatant classism with regards to ex-cons, I…

Indeed, if this much union activity causes some good, then more union activity can do more.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#139

Post by panny »

zugi wrote: post #30

I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union. Instead the article was about the Teamsters union convincing local governments to block Amazon from opening buildings, and Amazon "fighting back" by increasing their hiring of needy ex-cons and minorities from local colleges, ending their marijuana drug tests, and otherwise working to ingratiate themselves with their comminities. The T…

>I read the article expecting to see terrible actions by Amazon fighting the union.

>Instead the article was about

Yeah, it's a bait and switch designed to attract Amazon haters with the headline and then convince them Amazon is the good guy in the content. Seems like it worked really well based on comments here. I'm sure vox will be duely rewarded by their Amazon overlords.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#140

Post by colinmhayes »

gruez wrote: post #85
colinmhayes wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just take a look at amazon warehouse worker turnover rate. No other company in the industry comes anywhere close. Amazon's strategy is to gamify work and force the workers to put the pedal to the metal until they burn out and quit.

>Just take a look at amazon warehouse worker turnover rate. No other company in the industry comes anywhere close. But all that says is "people don't want to work on amazon". It doesn't say why they don't want to work there. The parent post made a specific claim (ie. "the workload is however much worse"), which is consistent with worse working conditions, but not proof of it.

Well what are the reasons people would quit?

1. Low pay. As this thread pointed out Amazon actually pays above average for the warehouse industry. It doesn't make sense that their turnover is higher than other warehouse if people leave because the pay is too low.

2. Dislike of "big tech" and corporate capitalism more generally. Basically these are people who saw someone complain on twitter and quit. I doubt people that would quit of morals would take the job in the first place, this seems like a non-issue.

3. Unprepared for the workload that comes with warehouse work. All warehouse work is tough, if this is your first warehouse job you might not be ready for physical labor. This seems reasonable to me since Amazon advertises their warehouse jobs more than other warehouse companies.

4. Amazon's workload is higher than other warehouses. Given what we know about the workload on their white collar workers and the stories I've heard about the warehouse work this seems like the biggest contributor to their high turnover to me.

Interested in hearing what you think the cause of their turnover could be.

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