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Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

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Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#101

Post by lmm »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #58
CuriousCosmic wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All children are equally capable of learning but different children are receptive to different teaching styles and approaches. Only teaching children with a small selection of approaches that were primarily refined with middle to upper class white neuro-typical children can be considered discriminatory. That's the point of those studies. It would be like forcing a kid who is growing up in middle-to-upper class wester…

Is it true that all children are equally capable of learning?

Not remotely. But it's very inconvenient to acknowledge that.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#102

Post by tptacek »

b112 wrote: post #95
jamiek88 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments about this are just plain boring when we see the injustice around us every single day. We don’t want to lean back in our comfort and pontificate from our position of privilege and safety and ‘well, akchtually’ people who experience these acts of hate and violence. Teaching and believing and spreading that some people are inferior because of where they were born or the color of their skin is just plain w…

My prior comments discussed zero acts of violence, and further, you are pontificating the second you reply to anything on hackernews. People here have been discussing how to teach people about equality, how to resolve racism in the young. My comment was about ensuring that is targeted correctly, both in youth and older people, so it actually works. You cannot fix something, if you target the wrong thing to fix. You c…

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating. When you do the "a-ha, gotcha, I meant something totally unexpected by the word 'hate'" thing, most of what you manage to communicate is that you think racial hatred is a game.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#103

Post by willcipriano »

btilly wrote: post #81
ravenstine wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, he spoke to children as if they are inexperienced humans. When speaking to children, adults often start with the assumption that children are inferior in some way to adults and therefore they can't be spoken to in a rational way. On the contrary, Mr. Rogers spoke to children in a way that didn't condescend, and did so effectively, not shoving too many ideas into a single statement or making his audien…

In other words, he spoke to children as if they are inexperienced humans. No, he spoke to them in the way he spoke to all humans. For example here he is talking to Congress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKy7ljRr0AA

Yeah, inexperienced humans. Thesis holds.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#104

Post by lupire »

chimeracoder wrote: post #85
Woberto wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP was referring to how Mr. Rogers introduced the show to a Canadian viewership, not him starting the show there

No, he started programming for children earlier, but the show Misterogers [sic] began in 1962 in Canada. It later became Mister Rogers' Neighborhood [sic], which is what we know and remember him for today. Some of the puppets he used were first introduced in Children's Corner in the 1950s, but the first show to carry his name, in any form, and starring him, was Misterogers in Canada.

More specifically and importantly, Misterogers in Canada was the first time Fred himself appeared on TV showing his face as a major character (and possiblly in any way) in a show.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#105

Post by b112 »

tptacek wrote: post #102
b112 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My prior comments discussed zero acts of violence, and further, you are pontificating the second you reply to anything on hackernews. People here have been discussing how to teach people about equality, how to resolve racism in the young. My comment was about ensuring that is targeted correctly, both in youth and older people, so it actually works. You cannot fix something, if you target the wrong thing to fix. You c…

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating. When you do the "a-ha, gotcha, I meant something totally unexpected by the word 'hate'" thing, most of what you manage to communicate is that you think racial hatred is a game.

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating

What presumption!

A few responses, are not indicative of the world, or even a majority opinion. They do not indicate "the way everyone else does", and in fact may be responses from people misusing the word!

This seems more to be the case, for the responses either tried to paint my statments in a poor light, even after I clarified my usage, or went off the deep end.

When you do the "a-ha, gotcha, I meant something totally unexpected by the word 'hate'" thing,

What are you even talking about? I clearly defined this from the start.

most of what you manage to communicate is that you think racial hatred is a game.

A game? It is as if you have not read my posts, or this thread. Or even the post you are responding to.

Just because I think racism can exist without hatred, does not mean racism cannot be hate based. This all or nothing, this "it is this way, and no other way", this "a problem can only be approached from one angle" thinking seldom results in solutions.

And we want to fix things, right? We don't just want to complain, and throw words at it, right?

Or do we want to understand, frame correctly, then fix?

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#107

Post by LBJsPNS »

b112 wrote: post #16
nimbius wrote: post #10

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did. a lot of kids saw that, and in turn became a lot harder to indoctrinate. bigots and racists unfortunately remembered that lesson very well. teaching lgbtq and the history of race in this country is all but forbidden in some States because it works.

What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. S…

But it is, Blanche! It is hate based!

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#108

Post by mensetmanusman »

elliekelly wrote: post #28
b112 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. S…

> Such people can believe black people are inferior, or lgbtq is wrong, without it deriving from hate. Their hate comes from people trying to "corrupt" their children's beliefs, and anyone with a child would feel precisely the same way, if they thought the thing taught, was very wrong. I think I understand what you’re trying to say but if you explore the next “layer” of their beliefs and ask why they’re so afraid you…

More likely fear

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#109

Post by tptacek »

b112 wrote: post #105
tptacek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating. When you do the "a-ha, gotcha, I meant something totally unexpected by the word 'hate'" thing, most of what you manage to communicate is that you think racial hatred is a game.

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating What presumption! A few responses, are not indicative of the world, or even a majority opinion. They do not indicate "the way everyone else does", and in fact may be responses from people misusing the word! This seems more to be the case, for the responses either…

Just because I think racism can exist without hatred [...]

See above.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#110

Post by eesmith »

b112 wrote: post #105
tptacek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating. When you do the "a-ha, gotcha, I meant something totally unexpected by the word 'hate'" thing, most of what you manage to communicate is that you think racial hatred is a game.

See what I mean about unproductive semantic debates? I recommend you just use the word the way everyone else does; that's what words are for, communicating What presumption! A few responses, are not indicative of the world, or even a majority opinion. They do not indicate "the way everyone else does", and in fact may be responses from people misusing the word! This seems more to be the case, for the responses either…

You introduced the word "hate" to the conversation.

Yes, racism can exist without hatred. We can view an ancient dead civilization through a racist lens without hating the people we study. But, so what?

This thread started from a specific example - segregated swimming pools. I don't know why you've written so much on this thread without actually discussing the issue.

We know whites were angry about desegregating swimming pools, and committed violence in order to preserve their belief in a segregated society protecting the legal and social status of whites over blacks.

That's not simply saying "there was hate", but giving a reason for the belief (white supremacy) an explanation of the anger (increasing desegregation overturned the status people regarded as their birthright), and a way out of it (showing beloved Mr. Rogers share a wading pool with his black friend, Officer Clemmons).

That's a chance to correct it, through Mr. Rogers' deliberate anti-racist efforts.

You earlier wrote "My prior comments discussed zero acts of violence", which rather highlights that your comments are completely decoupled from how Mr. Rogers was responding to widespread acts of violence when blacks tried to swim in what had been white-only swimming areas. That's the context everyone else is addressing.

So don't be surprised when people are irritated by your irrelevant hypotheticals.

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