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How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

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Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#71

Post by angrycoder »

liquidcool wrote: post #61

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals. I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forg…

Things that are bad for in the long run are a whole lot of fun immediately. Also, those tv show you mentioned aren't creating reality. They mirror it.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#72

Post by philwelch »

feralchimp wrote: post #42
powertower wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

It's going to take a lot of LEOs to guard the Manhattan Project weed/coke/heroin territories we instantiate in states that begin with the letter 'I' or 'N'.

Explain?

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#73

Post by philwelch »

liquidcool wrote: post #61

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals. I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forg…

> A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that?

If you want to maximize long-run happiness over the course of your lifespan, it's not entirely obvious that the rational choice is to abstain from drugs and alcohol. Many drugs cause little to no impairment to long-term cognitive function, especially when used in moderation. And according to the people that use them, some drugs have admittedly great benefits, ranging from spiritual enlightenment to making music sound better and food taste better to simply broadening one's perspective.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#74

Post by markbao »

netcan wrote: post #44
powertower wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

I don't think that argument holds so strong. Cops don't just get fired when crime goes down. The number of police employed is pretty flexible, you can keep them on if you want. There are plenty of good uses for police.

I think what's more is that police can use their time for more productive uses.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#75

Post by GiraffeNecktie »

maximusprime wrote: post #57
enjalot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you read the article? It's all about how a traditional market (cocaine) got disrupted by startups (meth labs). With the lovely side effects of proving the War on Drugs as useless as we thought it was.

It's a political article. It's toxic.

A political article that entirely avoids discussion of politicians and partisan politics and has only a tangential reference to public policy?

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#76

Post by tsotha »

liquidcool wrote: post #61

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals. I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forg…

Meh. No matter what you do you're not going to live forever. Some people push that thought away; for others it's a daily mantra.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#77

Post by chimeracoder »

dfc wrote: post #68
fleitz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fruit of the forbidden tree. Look at drinking, North America is one of the few places where binge drinking has large appeal. Creating a banned books like is creating a reading list. Simply by making something illegal you give it appeal. Once legal most people realize that whatever it is that was banned is actually pretty boring.

The US is not a big drinking country per capita: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_co... What is your evidence for your binge drinking statement? And what is your definition of binge drinking and large appeal.

I'll just point out that your chart, while relevant, doesn't necessarily disprove the original statement. Binge drinking is defined as a certain number of drinks in one night (four for women and five for men, I believe). It's possible that other countries drink more, but they spread it out, so they end up binge drinking less often.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#78

Post by woodpanel »

dfc wrote: post #68
fleitz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fruit of the forbidden tree. Look at drinking, North America is one of the few places where binge drinking has large appeal. Creating a banned books like is creating a reading list. Simply by making something illegal you give it appeal. Once legal most people realize that whatever it is that was banned is actually pretty boring.

The US is not a big drinking country per capita: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_co... What is your evidence for your binge drinking statement? And what is your definition of binge drinking and large appeal.

I'd like to know that too. But for the record: "Alcohol Consumption per Capita" does not tell us HOW alcohol is consumed (I can drink 1-2 bottles of beer 7 days a week, or binge drink on weekends). To me "Binge Drinking" implies an aim towards delirium.

EDIT: According to the telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7616405/Britain...) a research (http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_272b_en....) found that the EU countries that drank the least also drank the most frequently. While relatively absent countries like Britain and Scandinavia tend to drink more at one sitting.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#79

Post by orangecat »

liquidcool wrote: post #61

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals. I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forg…

I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking.

Same here and for similar reasons (although I still strongly oppose the WOD). But at least with alcohol, I'm pretty sure the optimal amount isn't zero in our current society. Not drinking has definitely interfered with my social development, which wasn't great to begin with. I don't plan to start now--among other reasons I can't stand the taste--but the advice I'd give to my 18 year old self is "go to parties, get drunk, and learn to enjoy it".

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#80

Post by dfc »

chimeracoder wrote: post #77
dfc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a big drinking country per capita: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_co... What is your evidence for your binge drinking statement? And what is your definition of binge drinking and large appeal.

I'll just point out that your chart, while relevant, doesn't necessarily disprove the original statement. Binge drinking is defined as a certain number of drinks in one night (four for women and five for men, I believe). It's possible that other countries drink more, but they spread it out, so they end up binge drinking less often.

There are all sorts of way to do the math. The issue is that he made a statement with zero factual support.
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