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How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

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Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#61

Post by liquidcool »

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals.

I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forgo that than citizens in other countries? My hunch is pop cultural influences (is there an episode of Entourage or How To Make It In America where someone doesn't use?), but a root cause analysis would be nice. Maybe it's related to per capita GDP? Education? Economic divide?

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#62

Post by burgerbrain »

anamax wrote: post #31
burgerbrain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would happen to a Mexican police officer and his family if he tried to simply "just do his job"? There is a reason the police are the ones wearing ski masks down there: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AG531_MEXICO_G_...

> There is a reason the police are the ones wearing ski masks down there: And there's a different reason why SWAT-cops in the US wear masks. The last time I pointed that out, someone mentioned that UK cops also wear masks at times. Is there any place where the cops never wear masks?

It is rare to see a publicity picture that has Mexican cops not in masks. This is in court rooms and press conferences, not nighttime raids.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#63

Post by defen »

powertower wrote: post #32
feralchimp wrote: post #28

The most interesting point in this article (for me) was the argument that disruptive market pressure from methamphetamine (in particular, low barrier to entry on the production side) didn't just show "War on Drugs" activity to be ineffective; it showed it to be orthogonal to meaningful consequences. Production by cartels outpacing interdiction by law enforcement isn't nearly as convincing as an argument for ending Wo…

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

Solution: anyone who is going to lose their job because of the end of the war on drugs just continues to receive their current salary until their Social Security retirement age, regardless of whether they take a new job or just stop working. It's the only way you'll get buy in from the lower levels of the prison-industrial complex, and ultimately cheaper than continuing what we have now.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#64

Post by scythe »

rick888 wrote: post #5

What about the increase in corruption in Mexico? An increase in corruption means more criminals can have drug businesses without being stopped by the cops. So, when more drug businesses pop-up, there will be less of a monopoly on the supply and the cost will go down over time. It's the same as any normal business. Even if we legalized all drugs tomorrow, it won't stop the violence. If the Mexican police were actually…

>What about the increase in corruption in Mexico? An increase in corruption means more criminals can have drug businesses without being stopped by the cops.

The article isn't about why prices went down, it's about why violence went down. If corruption leads to lower prices and less violence, corruption is a good thing.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#65

Post by chrischen »

rick888 wrote: post #9
TruthElixirX wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would stop a significant amount of the violence as explained by the fucking article. It is impossible to police drugs. Drugs even get into US max security prisons. The most fucking locked down place on Earth. If you can't eradicate it there how do you plan on eradicating it outside?

"It would stop a significant amount of the violence as explained by the fucking article." I'm sorry, I read the article and I disagree. I'm merely giving a different view and you have to get all angry about it. You should use more logic and less emotion when dealing with issues like this. "The most fucking locked down place on Earth. If you can't eradicate it there how do you plan on eradicating it outside?" I never…

Not all views are equal. Just because creationism is an alternative view doesn't mean it should be given the same weight as evolution.

Views are comprised of smaller discrete points which can be objectively measured. I think some people have dissected your arguments and determined that added up it comes up short when compared to the other view.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#66

Post by fleitz »

liquidcool wrote: post #61

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals. I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forg…

Its fruit of the forbidden tree. Look at drinking, North America is one of the few places where binge drinking has large appeal.

Creating a banned books like is creating a reading list. Simply by making something illegal you give it appeal.

Once legal most people realize that whatever it is that was banned is actually pretty boring.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#67

Post by pessimizer »

vacri wrote: post #41

Interesting that the report only mentions incarceration rates at the end, but doesn't seem to give any credence to the idea that 'permanently' locking everyone up reduces crime. The incarceration rate in the US is unbelieveably high, and started exploding in the late 80s. Increasing the incarcerated population fivefold isn't considered to have had a causal effect on the decrease in crime across the board? Come on, pu…

I don't buy that raising the incarceration rate leads to lowered crime unless you're putting people away for life. Seems more likely to create a larger number of people on the street with few job skills and a criminal record. Prison is where people who dabble in criminality become criminals for life.

Now, the idea that the drugs involved in the drug glut that brought on the peak in crime have been forced to lower prices without lowering risk - that seems plausible. Venkatesh's books showed us how little foot soldiers were making when the prices were twice what they are now.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#68

Post by dfc »

fleitz wrote: post #66
liquidcool wrote: post #61

What I'm most curious about is what keeps the demand for drugs in the US so high? If the demand dropped off, so would the supply, prices, and number of criminals. I recognize that I'm a deviant on the other side - I abstain from drugs, alcohol, and smoking. A bias for optimum brain, liver, and lung capacity/health seems like the rational choice. So why do so many forgo that? More pointedly, why do more Americans forg…

Its fruit of the forbidden tree. Look at drinking, North America is one of the few places where binge drinking has large appeal. Creating a banned books like is creating a reading list. Simply by making something illegal you give it appeal. Once legal most people realize that whatever it is that was banned is actually pretty boring.

The US is not a big drinking country per capita:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_co...

What is your evidence for your binge drinking statement? And what is your definition of binge drinking and large appeal.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#70

Post by suking »

defen wrote: post #63
powertower wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

Solution: anyone who is going to lose their job because of the end of the war on drugs just continues to receive their current salary until their Social Security retirement age, regardless of whether they take a new job or just stop working. It's the only way you'll get buy in from the lower levels of the prison-industrial complex, and ultimately cheaper than continuing what we have now.

Make them do some other type of gov't job. Post office, making roads, whatever. Paying them to sit on their butts - no thanks.
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