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Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

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Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#271

I currently use OS X for all my work and for personal/home use. But I have to agree with the sentiment. I have had nothing but praise for Apple and OS X up until Lion release. But this year has been a major turning point. End of XServe, end of Apple java, talk of end of Mac Pro and the whole post PC world thing, turning OS X into fisher price phone OS. Honestly, at this point I have to re-think my future and make a p…

> end of Apple java

I'm not sure why that would be seen as a problem. The situation where Apple were maintaining their own Java implementation was at least slightly anomalous; returning responsibility to Sun/Oracle and OpenJDK makes a lot of sense.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#272
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, OS X keyboard shortcuts sure do have bad discoverability. I'm in Safari, I wonder how to see page source. I click the Help menu (or Cmd-?) and type in 'source'. It finds the 'View Source' menu item. I arrow down to it and not only does it open the menu containing it, but there's a big animated blue arrow pointing at the keyboard shortcut. And what do you know, those funky symbols are in fact printed on my key…

...that's pretty slick but the discoverability on Windows is still better first..you'd have to know to think about what the feature is named... ...on Windows...you can invoke any menu by pressing ALT and then the first letter of the menu or a designated letter on a menu option (or you can use the arrows)...all windows menus get this behavior by default, in addition to separate keyboard shortcuts that can also be defi…

What I understand you're saying is that the keyboard shortcuts may typically be more efficient to perform in Windows. That could be true but it's a different topic from discoverability, where straight up full text search is better than collision hampered and segmented expansion of menus.

Beyond the basics (cut/copy/paste/new/save/quit/...), there's a fair chance we don't know which sub-menu the function we're searching for resides in (and shouldn't have to care).

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is quite curious... though can you really blame the operating system for a program running on it? (Presumably SW:tOR)

I've never installed SW:tOR on a Mac, so I can't say for sure, but I've never corrupted my operating system by installing an application before. That kind of bullshit actually is the fault of the OS.

The guy does't sound like an advanced user and may be using a sledgehammer to pound in a nail. He's not complaining of bluescreens, he's complaining of corrupt registry keys, which can do as little as preventing the one app from installing the way he wants.

Reinstalling Windows is a sledgehammer here. Looking up his error code, all he needed to do was reregister the library. If he's not an advanced user and so doesn't feel comfortable using the CLI, then it's not surprising a tool would be used. But reinstalling Windows to resolve this is like rebooting your computer because you want to turn caps lock off.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#274
Apple has become a zombie!

Why?

1. They have lost their Zen design philosophy - it has come to the point of ridiculousness with the new features in Lion; features for the sake of features. Since Steve is gone, there is probably no way back.

2. They have lost their perceived moral superiority - system closedness, App Store censorship, sueing people left and right, don't seem to care one bit about chinese labour conditions; they are worse than Microsoft or IBM ever were.

3. They have lost their coolness - the cool kids dig free, independent software; they are not the "Think different." company anymore, they attract people who desperately seek to belong to the masses. They attract sheeple who buy an iPad to tell their friends that they, too, have an iPad.

Summary: The Apple of today is a heartless consumer electronics giant, just like and worse than any other out there. It still sucks the last drops of blood out of the spirit it used to have in the past.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#275

I came from a windows background, tinkered with Linux for a few years on and off, and when I started my current job I was given a Macbook Pro. After a few months of using it I as so frustrated, and found myself spending more and more time in my Ubuntu virtual machine, that when they were ordering new MBPs for the design team I offered to give mine up to a designer and buy a ThinkPad, thus saving the company over $1,0…

I'm very happy OS X, though not perfect, is the way it is.

Many switchers expect OS X to behave like their old OS's. It's like they get imprinted on the first OS they used and can't move on.

They just don't "get it". Maybe OSX is too visual for them and they don't understand the trade-offs made to keep it simple and consistent. They don't see the 30+ years of tradition in the UI.

On top of that, Apple stupidly doesn't have a manual for learning the cool tricks - like holding down the command key when you click on a window title in the Finder to see your path history.

Maybe you and O'Reilly need one of the many O'Reilly books on the subject. This one is one of my favorite.

http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920014553.do?green=CC950...

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#276
post #93

I use Windows as my primary UI, but also use ubuntu and OSX daily in virtual machines. I switch between visual studio, eclipse, and XCode constantly. I still prefer the windows UI to the others. Ubuntu, especially Unity feels always like a step behind the windows UI. In the latest release the taskbar won't stick, they took away the start menu, and menus are stuck at the top of the screen like osx. I like in windows h…

Package management in Windows ... surely you must be joking. Having an all encompassing .app folder is simpler, and makes it easier for the user to delete stuff they no longer need/want without it spewing files all over the hard drive. DMG is just a disk image, just like Zip it allows you to contain multiple files and compress them. Not only that, but it keeps everything in tact such as symlinks, permissions and fun…

Not all apps are self-contained. There are plugins, drivers, extensions to the OS etc... That's why having an install script/uninstall script that the OS can reference from one place is useful. Lots of install scripts also have repair functions, as well as options to modify the installation. Which is why having a my software control panel is useful.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#277

I came from a windows background, tinkered with Linux for a few years on and off, and when I started my current job I was given a Macbook Pro. After a few months of using it I as so frustrated, and found myself spending more and more time in my Ubuntu virtual machine, that when they were ordering new MBPs for the design team I offered to give mine up to a designer and buy a ThinkPad, thus saving the company over $1,0…

When I click the Maximize button on OSX, it doesn't actually maximize the window 99% of the time, it just picks a seemingly random size. I saw an app a while ago that would let you control how your OSX apps are resized when you maximize them, but if I have to buy an app just to make my OS do what it should do anyway, there's something wrong. If you're going to judge it based on your existing preconceptions, of course…

"Mac OS: The button instructs the app to make the window larger to fit the open document."

As others have pointed out, the zoom button is completely arbitrary, and doesn't simply fit the open document.

--- Examples ---

Terminal: fills the entire screen

Safari: instructs the app to fit the open document. (what happens if you have multiple tabs open? which documents gets fitted?)

iTunes: SHRINKS the entire player to a mini player (how did they determine that a "zoom" button should shrink something is beyond me)

---------

These are all apps that come with the system, so there is really no excuse for such arbitrary behavior. There are numerous other 3rd party apps (firefox, filezilla, etc) that simply fill up the screen.

I call it the Surprise Button because whenever you click it, you have no idea what's going to happen.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#278

I came from a windows background, tinkered with Linux for a few years on and off, and when I started my current job I was given a Macbook Pro. After a few months of using it I as so frustrated, and found myself spending more and more time in my Ubuntu virtual machine, that when they were ordering new MBPs for the design team I offered to give mine up to a designer and buy a ThinkPad, thus saving the company over $1,0…

If you asked a friend or searched Google instead of writing your problems here perhaps you would have found the solutions. You took time to learn how to use Linux and the shell, why not take some time to learn how to use OS X as well before complaining that it doesn't do what you want? It does do most of the things you mentioned, and when it doesn't it's by design.

Resizing from any side: Legitimate complaint. Fixed in Lion but this was a big annoyance until summer 2011.

Maximize: It's not a maximize button. Your expectations don't make it broken. Managing expectations of a new OS is dangerous. It's a big reason why people dislike Linux as well, and it's kind of a shame that people expect everything to behave like whatever they are used to.

Finder can access Windows shares, FTP, NTFS, HFS, etc. as well. What are you getting at with this point?

You dislike how Apple distributes their build tools. Ok. Maybe some prefer downloading an installer to running aptitude. (I prefer the package manager way as well, but it's just that: a preference.)

Finder isn't supposed to be a power tool for people who want to know what's in /usr. Hiding that stuff is the right decision. You said you enjoy the keyboard, fire up a terminal and away you go. Or run the defaults command that enables hidden files in Finder if you really need to click on hidden files all day.

Cmd-Shift-G lets you navigate to an arbitrary path in Finder. It has tab completion. You can also run `open /path/to/folder` in terminal. `open .` is often handy.

Cmd-left and Cmd-right are beginning of line and end of line navigation commands. You can also use `Ctrl-a` and `Ctrl-e`, standard Emacs shortcuts just like you're used to in the shell. Home and End are Fn-left and Fn-right if you actually wanted Home and End, which behave strangely on OS X. (They go to the beginning or end of a document without changing the position of the cursor, as Cmd-up and Cmd-down do.)

Terminal navigation shortcuts: Legitimate complaint. Because option and alt are on the same key you have to use `ESC f`, `ESC b`, etc. to navigate by word. Being a Linux geek you should know that `ESC ` is equivalent to `alt-`. If you want to go to the beginning or end of line again just use `Ctrl-a` and `Ctrl-e`. (Switch caps lock to control in the Keyboard preferences for maximum convenience and comfort.)

It's not locked down or dumbed down, you just didn't take the time or effort to learn it as well as you did Linux. Maybe because you had some preconceived expectation that it was locked down and dumbed down.

Linux seems dumbed down to me after 6 years of OS X because standard keyboard shortcuts for navigation in text fields doesn't work. (Ctrl-[abefnp]) And Xmonad and the like seem primitive compared to just adding tiling goodies (Divvy, SizeUp) to a standard WM to get the best of both worlds.

Honestly it mostly just comes down to managing expectations and what you are already familiar with. Approach things with a fresh and curious child-like mind and you'll be much happier. Never stop learning, never be afraid to ask how to do something even if it seems silly. Like trying to move the damn cursor to the beginning of the line.

Despite my snarky tone I experienced a lot of the frustrations you expressed here. I just dealt with them differently and am happier for it.

Re: Tim O'Reilly: I am really starting to hate Mac OS X.

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some of the points are valid; there may be solutions but they are so obscure that people obviously never discover them. I've had a MBP for nearly a year now and never knew that Fn+Left/Right substituted for Home/End (thanks for the tip, btw). I can't see myself guessing Cmd+Shift+G to type paths into Finder either... They're valid solutions but normally Linux is (not unjustifiably) castigated for requiring ob…

One handy thing is that because OS X uses Command for most of its window-management and application hot-keys, control + key is almost always unmasked by the application. Why is this important? Control-A and Control-E work in almost any text input! They work in Adium, they work in Chrome for the location bar and this textarea, and I'm sure many others. I was pleasantly surprised because the Windows/Linux systems tend…

They work in every Cocoa text field. Ctrl-[abefnp] ... not sure if I missed any. Those are the ones I use daily.
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