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Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

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Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#41

Post by fallingknife »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #34
fallingknife wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is the technical definition of discrimination, but when people say something is "discriminatory" they usually mean discriminatory in a way that it isn't supposed to be. To your example of a college, it is supposed to discriminate on academic performance, so nobody has a problem with discrimination on GPA (of course comparing GPAs is still an implementation problem). And to say it's hard to be colorblind is n…

> You will probably fall back to the line that black students would have had a higher GPA if they weren't discriminated against in other areas of society, but then it's not the school doing the discriminating. And this is the core of the problem. Instead of selecting the best students, universities have decided to select who they think hypothetically would have been the best student in a perfect world, and doing a ve…

> but once they get into the college environment they will be a better student

How, exactly? Not that this really matters b/c universities today are credentialing scams where no one fails out.

> And those two getting most of the focus is because they get most of the discrimination.

Citation needed. And if they were being at all quantitative about this, at least I would have some sympathy.

The giveaway is that they are being completely dishonest about what they are doing. Harvard fought like hell to prevent their admissions process from coming out in discovery. If they were honest, they would make it public anyway. What do they have to hide? Well, just that they weren't running any remotely reasonable process to model how good of a student someone is under normalized conditions. They were artificially lowering the "personality scores" of Asian students to keep them out.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#42

Post by crooked-v »

fallingknife wrote: post #15
Retric wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anti-racism is usually structured around conscious efforts and deliberate actions which are intended to provide equal opportunities for all people on both an individual and a systemic level.” Actually being color blind rather than having the appearance of being color blind is a tricky thing. Taken to an extreme, a collage which had a purely random acceptance criteria is non discriminatory, but it would feel like dis…

Yes that is the technical definition of discrimination, but when people say something is "discriminatory" they usually mean discriminatory in a way that it isn't supposed to be. To your example of a college, it is supposed to discriminate on academic performance, so nobody has a problem with discrimination on GPA (of course comparing GPAs is still an implementation problem). And to say it's hard to be colorblind is n…

> You just don't factor in race.

You may not want to factor in race, but society already has. People aren't spherical cows in a vacuum.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#44

Post by crooked-v »

fallingknife wrote: post #41
Dylan16807 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You will probably fall back to the line that black students would have had a higher GPA if they weren't discriminated against in other areas of society, but then it's not the school doing the discriminating. And this is the core of the problem. Instead of selecting the best students, universities have decided to select who they think hypothetically would have been the best student in a perfect world, and doing a ve…

> but once they get into the college environment they will be a better student How, exactly? Not that this really matters b/c universities today are credentialing scams where no one fails out. > And those two getting most of the focus is because they get most of the discrimination. Citation needed. And if they were being at all quantitative about this, at least I would have some sympathy. The giveaway is that they ar…

> How, exactly?

Consider two students with equal intelligence and equal skill at studying.

One lives in a rich suburban neighborhood where schools are well-funded and the parents have the time and money to supply constant extracurricular attention to their children.

The other lives in a single-parent household in a historically redlined urban neighborhood where the school budgets are peanuts and he has to work a part-time job on the side to help support his family.

Which one is going to have the more impressive transcript in college applications?

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#45

Post by fsckboy »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #29
fsckboy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one argues discrimination is bad, they argue discrimination based on something as arbitrary as skin color or gender is bad. you're wrong. being in favor of "equitable outcomes" today frequently means arguing that discrimination on the basis of math or other test scores is bad. Google "math is whiteness" or see the elimination of gifted and talented programs in public schools

> Google "math is whiteness" That's about how teaching methods are failing some children, and then they're being judged for it unfairly. It's not against proper education and testing and using that to sort.

> teaching methods are failing some children

if you assume that all children are equally capable of learning everything then you are forced to conclude that teaching methods are failing some children. But if you "believe in science" (it's quite popular today to profess belief in science), you don't believe assumptions like that.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#46

Post by fallingknife »

crooked-v wrote: post #44
fallingknife wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but once they get into the college environment they will be a better student How, exactly? Not that this really matters b/c universities today are credentialing scams where no one fails out. > And those two getting most of the focus is because they get most of the discrimination. Citation needed. And if they were being at all quantitative about this, at least I would have some sympathy. The giveaway is that they ar…

> How, exactly? Consider two students with equal intelligence and equal skill at studying. One lives in a rich suburban neighborhood where schools are well-funded and the parents have the time and money to supply constant extracurricular attention to their children. The other lives in a single-parent household in a historically redlined urban neighborhood where the school budgets are peanuts and he has to work a part…

Yes but how is that going to be equalized by another 4 years of the same?

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#47

Post by hinkley »

normac2 wrote: post #31
hinkley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the #MeToo movement there was a slow ramp of scandals about celebrities and for a while there every time someone posted about Fred I would recite a little litany in my head, Pleasebegoodpleasebegoodpleasebegood That went into overdrive after the first rumors about Bill Cosby started up. And then by John Lassiter I was a momentary wreck every time Fred made the news. Fred Rogers has been gone long enough now th…

Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/767/

Somewhere in a highly secure secret government facility is a recording of Fred Rogers saying, “I’m not angry, I’m just disappointed.”

If I suddenly stop posting here in two days time it’s because They came for me. Please contact Amnesty International.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#48

Post by fknorangesite »

hinkley wrote: post #20
fknorangesite wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after the first rumors about Bill Cosby started up 2004?

I hate to be the one to have to tell you this but Fred Rogers passed away in 2003. It’s been almost two decades. No wonder we’re a mess.

Ah well I'm Canadian so I've always been more of a Mr Dressup kind of guy.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#49

Post by b3morales »

ratww wrote: post #18
nimbius wrote: post #10

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did. a lot of kids saw that, and in turn became a lot harder to indoctrinate. bigots and racists unfortunately remembered that lesson very well. teaching lgbtq and the history of race in this country is all but forbidden in some States because it works.

> I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did I didn't know this story, so I searched for a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6O_Ep9bY0U

It's also described in the article, and there's a clip with commentary from the actor, François Clemmons (playing "Officer Clemmons").

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#50

Post by RajT88 »

hinkley wrote: post #3
jmclnx wrote: post #2

Interesting read, gained even more respect for him from this article.

Before the #MeToo movement there was a slow ramp of scandals about celebrities and for a while there every time someone posted about Fred I would recite a little litany in my head, Pleasebegoodpleasebegoodpleasebegood That went into overdrive after the first rumors about Bill Cosby started up. And then by John Lassiter I was a momentary wreck every time Fred made the news. Fred Rogers has been gone long enough now th…

I enjoy casually horrifying people by mentioning that Fred Rogers had 2 children.

Which means that he at least occasionally did the nasty.

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