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I miss the programmable web (2021)

matt-rickard.com

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Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#131

Post by pessimizer »

redox99 wrote: post #124
knighthack wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the first time I heard the word "tree shaking" for CSS. ...I genuinely wondered what tree was involved. Took a Google search before I understood that it was industry jargon, which meant this: to reduce/minify code. There are many similarly opaque things in the world of web-development.

Imagine you have a root (let's say your index webpage). Then you can build a tree of what is used by what. So if you have a CSS classname that is used by C (C being an HTML element, component, whatever) and C is used by B, but B is not used by A (the root) then it's shaken (removed) and "falls" because it's not connected to the root. Basically remove everything not connected to the root.

If you're telling a story about how you learned something, it implies that you have learned it.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#132

Post by redox99 »

splintercell wrote: post #88
knighthack wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the first time I heard the word "tree shaking" for CSS. ...I genuinely wondered what tree was involved. Took a Google search before I understood that it was industry jargon, which meant this: to reduce/minify code. There are many similarly opaque things in the world of web-development.

Tree shaking doesn’t mean to minify the code but remove the CSS classes from the payload which are not being used anywhere. Proper term is dead code elimination (DCE).

Why is "dead code elimination" more proper than tree shaking? Is CSS even "code"?

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#133

Post by GuB-42 »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #55

I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated. Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out lookin…

The more I see the modern web, the more I appreciate PHP (LAMP stack or similar). On the client side, with IE6 more or less gone, most of it can be done with vanilla JS, no need for JQuery anymore.

If what you are doing is just another CRUD-based website, there is real need for more, PHP is designed to make that simple. I had a well deserved reputation for poor security, but they got better, and 90% of it is addressed by just using parameterized SQL queries.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#134

Post by deadbeeves »

Ntrails wrote: post #122
superkuh wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only reason you build websites is to get paid then you're part of the problem. Separate your personal and professional lives. Or do you not enjoy building on the web for fun?

> If the only reason you build websites is to get paid then you're part of the problem. This is absurd. I write code for a living, I enjoy solving problems and that is part of my job. I do not write code in my free time. I play video games, go hiking or go to the beach and maybe read a book with dragons in. That doesn't make me a problem. My job is not my life. Honestly it shouldn't be, it is not healthy imo

You can code in your free time without your job being your life, as you put it. For example, your hobby project might have nothing to do with your day job and just be something you want to make or that gives you pleasure to tinker with. If you don't really enjoy doing it of if there are other things you'd rather do then you don't have to do it, obviously, but this idea that you can either never code outside work hours or have an unhealthy relationship with your job is a false dichotomy.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#135

Post by enumjorge »

jnovek wrote: post #121
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but there is no value, personally in building projects like that anymore, you can not use them in your portfolio or to progress your career - i was going to build a personal site, but realised it would probably act as more of a hindrance to me, because potential clients/employers would see that it was not using latest new js fad. if it was up to me i would never touch those things, but that's what the market has…

I’d say the opposite in my experience when I’ve been a hiring manager. I prefer candidates who show that they understand their fundamentals, their primary domain and can show that they grow and adapt easily. The current hot technology is ephemeral and can be learned on the job by a competent engineer. That said, my background is startups so I don’t know what larger companies expect.

My background is in larger companies. No one is going to care what framework your personal site is built on. If anything it might not even come up because there’s such an emphasis on Leetcode questions, but I seriously doubt it would hurt your chances.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#137

Post by ori_b »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #97
madeofpalk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interviewed and hired many developers. Not once was the tech stack of their personal website, if they had one, ever brought up or considered.

i just will assume most hiring gatekeepers will make superficial judgements about the appearance of your portfolio work and many developers will do the same about your code. not everyone is willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

I poke around code that candidates have written. Simplicity is a virtue.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#138

Post by nudpiedo »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #76
blauditore wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build web pages without the whole JS frameworks and Node circus, they are pretty durable. Those helpers were invented because people started to build empires (complex applications) on sand (the web), so they are pretty useful for larger projects, but simple websites can still be easily built with plain HTML/CSS/JS.

yeah but there is no value, personally in building projects like that anymore, you can not use them in your portfolio or to progress your career - i was going to build a personal site, but realised it would probably act as more of a hindrance to me, because potential clients/employers would see that it was not using latest new js fad. if it was up to me i would never touch those things, but that's what the market has…

Amazon and Google frontends work without Js. The same can be applied to other empires.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#139

Post by andai »

Ntrails wrote: post #122
superkuh wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the only reason you build websites is to get paid then you're part of the problem. Separate your personal and professional lives. Or do you not enjoy building on the web for fun?

> If the only reason you build websites is to get paid then you're part of the problem. This is absurd. I write code for a living, I enjoy solving problems and that is part of my job. I do not write code in my free time. I play video games, go hiking or go to the beach and maybe read a book with dragons in. That doesn't make me a problem. My job is not my life. Honestly it shouldn't be, it is not healthy imo

You're competing against people who do. "Should" it be that way? It's not the employer's fault some prefer to spend their free time programming too ;)

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#140

Post by andai »

TBurette wrote: post #38
progval wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do browsers enforce CSP against bookmarklets and user scripts, though?

The goal is to prevent any way for attackers to inject code. Bookmarklets and user scripts are collateral damage.

That's probably the right choice, but it sounds like there should be a "captcha" to separate programmers from non-programmers.

The browser remains in a locked down kiddie mode until you solve these riddles three!

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