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Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

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Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#181

Post by protomyth »

jinushaun wrote: post #179
protomyth wrote: post #43

"The desktop seems crowded, and yet on a large monitor there’s so much real estate to get to that left menu that it’s a chore; multi-monitor just never felt right either. To make matters worse, Canonical seemed to ignore all protest, which made users feel alienated and not cared about." When I use OS X, I do miss the NeXTSTEP menu bar. I do wonder how much research is going into large screen UIs these days. It seems…

What I find ironic is that the developers (and designers) that work on these OSes are most likely using a giant monitor or dual-monitoring, or both. However, they're still designing for a single 1024x768 monitor. WTF? With Aero Snap in Win7 and multi-mon taskbar in Win8, MS seems to finally start supporting some of these features. OSX is busted on the 27" iMac. I know because I own one. OSX needs Win7-style window do…

The one good thing about Lion has been the mission control interface. I got it rigged on pushing the scroll wheel of my trackball and it keeps me out of the window managing business.

I really think going back to the NeXT window bar would fix a lot of my hatred.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#182

Post by mixmastamyk »

vdoma wrote: post #3

What's wrong with sticking to an older version of Ubuntu - 11.04 or earlier where you're not forced to use Unity? That's what I do. And I get a lot more work done without having to worry with the latest shiny new toys in town.

Sounds good but it will lose support in a year or so. And you cant forget about new apps without difficulty.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#184

Post by skeptical »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #151
gerggerg wrote: post #26

Canonical is genuinely trying to make linux the most user friendly it's ever been and make it ready for real mass adoption. It's not going to be easy and not everyone is going to like every change but you can't get so down on them for trying so hard. Saying the solution is to go backwards is the same as telling canonical to just stop trying all together. There's no point in stagnating and sticking with gnome. New use…

You think people will not switch to ubuntu because there is a "start" menu? Something that has been present in windows since 1995? I've said this before, but there are bigger problems than the UI of the main desktop. I think gnome2 is a surprisingly usable desktop , I remember when it was an infact that it was slow and buggy but the hard work has paid off and overall it's one of my favorite UIs on any platform due to…

I would like to add. It's not only those who are not so tech savy that have problems. I DO NOT WANT to spend time learning how a desktop UI works. I have more interesting things to do than getting used to new UIs and whatnot when the ones I use already allow me as productive as I can with a UI.

Personally all I want is a taskbar, and an application launcher. I like the combination of openbox+tint but I a lot of the application I use depend on gnome libraries anyway.

Glossy chrome elements and wobbly windows are meaningless in terms of usability, that's my opinion. Why would we want to break something that works fine? Why trashing old but reliable technology?

I would guess it's more about shipping a fancy glossy looking product than anything else.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#185

Post by gks »

pekk wrote: post #55
gks wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely doubtful that we'll see Ubuntu as a contender to iOS and Android. If you're going to run linux on a tablet-sized device, why not just use Android? It has an existing application store(s), and more importantly an existing userbase. Look at WebOS, if there's any competition out there to compete with Android or iOS WebOS would be the best option. From everything I've seen and heard it is quite fantastic. If no…

Android is 'built on' Linux but it doesn't expose Linux to users in any remotely meaningful way (contrast, for example, with Maemo). I agree with you that it's doubtful, but if Ubuntu doesn't do it then I just don't think it can be done - Fedora and Debian aren't even going to try and most other distros don't even have the resources to start.

Sorry, late reply here.

I know that Android is built on linux. But I don't see that as being hugely important. It's about the interface and the "mindshare" of the users and particularly the developers if you want to have a solid app selection for those users.

There's going to be a huge issue with ANY new platform. It's the chicken and the egg all over again.

Apple created a platform and got a bunch of users interested because the product was so mindblowingly refreshing amid all the crap phones available to consumers at the time. While applications weren't available from the get go, the users loved the phone despite the lack of apps.

When the app store was made available in the second iOS release allowing developers to make applications for those phones it effectively bypassed the chicken and egg problem.

Take a look at WebOS. It was unique and refreshing although not mindblowingly refreshing like the iPhone/iPad were. Thus, it's userbase was small and it's developer base even smaller. Developers wouldn't look at the platform because there weren't enough users. Users won't look at it because of the lack of applications.

Many of the original iPhone purchasers were tech savy people. They were the only people willing to spend $500-600 on a phone. People always ask those tech savy people for advice. Those tech savy people say "I love my iphone and here's why." But the same didn't happen with WebOS because the tech savy people wouldn't buy the device because it lacked apps. At least, not until the TouchPad hit $99 anyway.

What makes you think Ubuntu has a chance here? Seriously. Granted, I will give you one thing about Ubuntu and that's at least that they're trying to provide a consistent experience. Which is assbackwards from Linux in general with the Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment, Xfce, XMonad blah blah blah. Sure, those give you choice. But on a tablet or phone, choice isn't always a good thing, at least not the same level of choice you find on a desktop.

But I just don't see Ubuntu as a possible threat to anything here at all. As someone else already mentioned, if someone wants a tablet OS, just fork Android and run with it. At least you have a working base for something that's already seen success. You can mold it into something unique like Amazon and B&N did. I don't think Ubuntu can compete.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#186

Post by jiggy2011 »

skeptical wrote: post #184
jiggy2011 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think people will not switch to ubuntu because there is a "start" menu? Something that has been present in windows since 1995? I've said this before, but there are bigger problems than the UI of the main desktop. I think gnome2 is a surprisingly usable desktop , I remember when it was an infact that it was slow and buggy but the hard work has paid off and overall it's one of my favorite UIs on any platform due to…

I would like to add. It's not only those who are not so tech savy that have problems. I DO NOT WANT to spend time learning how a desktop UI works. I have more interesting things to do than getting used to new UIs and whatnot when the ones I use already allow me as productive as I can with a UI. Personally all I want is a taskbar, and an application launcher. I like the combination of openbox+tint but I a lot of the a…

Agreed but I don't think Unity is particularly pretty anyway. Big ugly text and too much purple in the default Ubuntu setup.

If bling is your thing then you can do enough with compiz and desktop themes to make pretty much any desktop look however you like.

I think making the compiz settings manager more visible and easier to use would be quite a big win here, as it's often not obvious what most of the plugins do until you activate them and the whole "resolve conflicts" thing is a total mess that needs simplifying.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#187

Post by sixtofour »

notatoad wrote: post #147
sixtofour wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, Mint has a version that's directly downstream from Debian, not based on Ubuntu at all.

what does that have to do with anything? the parent suggested debian, not "some other debian-derived distro" linux mint debian edition is definitely not debian.

You're exactly right. But it could be a gentler introduction to Debian for some.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#188

Post by _grrr »

_grrr wrote: post #169

Yesterday I upgraded to Ubuntu 11.10, having already regretted going from 10.10 to 11.04. In 11.04 the Gnome fall back just about worked. In 11.10 it does not. As for Unity I can't tell whether it's working as intended or is buggy. Every progressive update from 10.04 has gotten increasingly slow to boot and respond. As we speak I'm preparing to install Mint, with a fall back to Ubuntu 10.10.

Having now installed Mint 11 I can say it it's a real improvement over Ubuntu 11. Fast to load and shutdown, responsive, beautiful UI.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#189

Post by regularfry »

Legion wrote: post #92
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't ever want Linux on the desktop to succeed then if I have to sacrifice choice. I'm thrilled with Ubuntu every day, and if I had to sacrifice any of the flexibiltiy and customization I enjoy... well, I'd just use OS X. Also, I have no freaking idea how your Ubuntu feels sluggish. Being in Ubuntu on my Quad/8GB is vastly faster than being in Windows.

It seems to me, though, that there's room for all the people interested in developing a "for everyone" UI to rally around a single project. The people interested in making Unity/Gnome 3/etc aren't the people interested in making ratpoison. I wish desktop Linux would look a lot more like Rails 3: a "sensible defaults" stack that is ready-made for picking up and using, but with the ability to easily swap out SuperFrien…

10.04 was that. That's part of the problem, many of the decisions since then seem to have been going backwards rather than building on it as a solid base.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#190

Post by gujk »

tooearly wrote: post #142
pyre wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unity was pushed out before it was ready. I think that this is the real rub here.

Unity was first released in Ubuntu 10.10 Netbook Edition. And that was based on Ubuntu Netbook Remix, first released in 8.04 (they didn't necessarily share code, but the design was similar). You would think that by 11.10, released a month ago, they would have something release-quality. I think it's just the design that people don't like. Canonical has the resources to fix bugs, but they don't necessarily have the des…

It is hard for a dev to say a crash is a feature. It is easy for a designer to say an unusable UI is an intentional exploration of a new paradigm for modality in transhuman existence.
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